Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Again, this comes down into a disagreement in how the majority of players will behave, and what the incentives are to do certain behaviors.


If the item rewards are good enough, the rank 50 players will want to run it more often to get those items (For example, a rank 30 uber sword to use for their lower rank classes). You can see this same type of behavior in the open-world rank 30 NMs. Rank 50 players killed them constantly so they could get the item drops.

Additionally, they will want to run the rank 30 dungeon on their lower rank classes as well to get SP.



The gear is not mediocre. It is some of the best gear you can have at rank 30, therefore making it valuable when compared to other rank 30 gear. Gear with such a high value needs to be earned via a challenge of adequate merit.

When the best rank 30 gear is so easily farmable by rank 50s, there is no incentive for crafters to craft normal rank 30 gear, and the market for rank 30 gear is diminished.

First of all, all of your arguments are fueled by speculation. Second of all, the BEST r30 gear is going to mediocre to a r50 player, period. If they want gear for a rank 30 class they will either outright buy it or farm it. Your example of the open world NMs proves this point. How many r50s would still fight the mid-level NMs if they had to do it as a r30? What makes you think that a r50 is going to repeatedly farm a r50 dungeon for everything they want, just to be forced to do it again for LOWER level gear for a lower level job?

[Rentahamster]

Your example of the open world NMs proves this point. How many r50s would still fight the mid-level NMs if they had to do it as a r30?

Everyone would, if they don't want their end-game gear build to be gimp, and if they want to equip their lower classes with the best gear.

Seer's Cowl
Bilaud
Veneer Bracers
Kokoroon Armor
Elmo
Penance
Eternal Shade
Nightawk Visor


ALL of these items are end-game, and all of them are the best items for mid-rank.

No one wants to buy haubergeons anymore because kokoroon armor completely outclasses them.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Everyone would, if they don't want their end-game gear build to be gimp, and if they want to equip their lower classes with the best gear.

Seer's Cowl
Bilaud
Veneer Bracers
Kokoroon Armor
Elmo
Penance
Eternal Shade
Nightawk Visor


ALL of these items are end-game, and all of them are the best items for mid-rank.

No one wants to buy haubergeons anymore because kokoroon armor completely outclasses them.

Listen, whatever you say. I feel your own biased opinion is flawed. Unfortunately neither of us can prove the other right or wrong.

[Rentahamster]

Listen, whatever you say. I feel your own biased opinion is flawed. Unfortunately neither of us can prove the other right or wrong.

Are you seriously saying that no one would want to farm Kokoroon Armor if they were forced to do it as a rank 30?

Seriously?

It's the best DPS armor in the game. EVERYONE would do it.

[Krausus]

Are you seriously saying that no one would want to farm Kokoroon Armor if they were forced to do it as a rank 30?

Seriously?

It's the best DPS armor in the game. EVERYONE would do it.

that's a pretty bold statement to make considering we do not know the STR to ATK ratio, but that is getting a bit off topic.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

And having it uncapped solves this "problem"? As if steamrolling the dungeon would make them any less inclined to move on? You can say the exact same thing - "They will run it a few times, see how boring it is because there is no challenge, and then move on."

Challenging content has a direct influence on its replayability. I'm at a loss as to how you don't know that. It's a fundamental concept that applies to all games, ever.

If the only reason I have to run a r30 dungeon is for the challenge, I am going to run it 1-3 times at most. After that it is routine and not a challenge and then by your own logic is no longer worth playing. If I can farm mid-level gear from it in 15-30 minutes then I will run it 10-15 times. Do you see how this is more 'replayable'? 10-15 times is greater than 1-3, do you not agree?

Your dad vs 8 year old girl analogy doesn't fit at all is not related to what we are talking about at all. That you think my argument is framed within the context of that analogy shows that you still don't understand what my point is.

I've tried in many different ways to explain how these types of concepts are integral to games from a game design and game balance perspective, and I'm not sure how else to put it more simply, or in a way that makes sense to you.

I'm sorry, it is COMPLETELY relevant. Your character's level is a mechanic that is meant to represent your experience and age within the game. The more you complete and experience, the higher your level gets. I am 29 and I have gotten 2 promotions and 3 raises in the 4 years I have been working at my current company. THAT is my accomplishment. My high school GPA is no longer counted as an achievement, so if I had to go back and retake a class to improve that GPA, I wouldn't tote it as some accomplishment worthy of my time.

Yet that is what you propose we should do. Any r50 should be glorified because he went BACK 20 levels and accomplished a r30 dungeon? I'm sorry, I don't get the connection.

Are you seriously saying that no one would want to farm Kokoroon Armor if they were forced to do it as a rank 30?

Seriously?

It's the best DPS armor in the game. EVERYONE would do it.

Did I say no one? No. But a hell of a lot LESS people would.

Not to mention that this is a whole other issue in itself as the first Dev team gave us NM gear that was barely any better than regular gear. Once the new team creates rank appropriate gear, the demand for level 30 gear is going to diminish greatly.