Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

[Physic]

Here is the problem with your statement, I don't need the gear. I know this argument has been pounded into this debate over and over again, but it still hasn't sank it's teeth in. I'm NOT going to waste 60 minutes running a dungeon for a slight chance to get ANY gear, least of all gear for a rank 30 job that I am only leveling to get a skill or two, a skill or two that might or might not be in the game after all the battle, class, and job adjustments and additions.

AND making a r50 run through r30 content to get gear is just as unfair for the r50s who don't want it.

what if the dungeon has some form of reward that is useful across multiple levels? do you still think you should be able to steam roll it to the point of doing it in 15 minutes?

would that type of content(useful rewards across multiple levels) at a level cap make you play the dungeon more, or less? would that type of content last you longer and be more entertaining if it had no cap or a cap?



as another possible solution How about if the dungeon rewarded two types of reward per kill, sp/dungeon sp, both with the same requirements, ie you get more dungeon sp for being the right level, or only got dungeon sp for being in the right range, and you could use dungeon SP to buy/unlock useful items/gears for all levels?

this could solve the issue of setting up a good reward for doing the dungeon at the selected range, that makes it worthwhile for players of all levels without having to design and fix a level cap system, if that is really so hard. however it wouldnt allow people to do the dungeons on their fav class at all levels. but i suppose it could be in place until they come up with a level cap option.

[TheVedis]

what if the dungeon has some form of reward that is useful across multiple levels? do you still think you should be able to steam roll it to the point of doing it in 15 minutes?

would that type of content(useful rewards across multiple levels) at a level cap make you play the dungeon more, or less? would that type of content last you longer and be more entertaining if it had no cap or a cap?



as another possible solution How about if the dungeon rewarded two types of reward per kill, sp/dungeon sp, both with the same requirements, ie you get more dungeon sp for being the right level, or only got dungeon sp for being in the right range, and you could use dungeon SP to buy/unlock useful items/gears for all levels?

this could solve the issue of setting up a good reward for doing the dungeon at the selected range, that makes it worthwhile for players of all levels without having to design and fix a level cap system, if that is really so hard. however it wouldnt allow people to do the dungeons on their fav class at all levels. but i suppose it could be in place until they come up with a level cap option.

you are once again giving an idea that will specificaly exclude and penalize people for not going along with your opinion

ideas that dont hurt others is what are needed here

[Physic]

you are once again giving an idea that will specificaly exclude and penalize people for not going along with your opinion

ideas that dont hurt others is what are needed here

the point is really, if the dungeon has rewards that arent simply outleveled, and have use across multiple level ranges, should, in your opinion, it be steam rollable

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

the point is really, if the dungeon has rewards that arent simply outleveled, and have use across multiple level ranges, should, in your opinion, it be steam rollable

I think it is unacceptable to force r50 players into a r30 dungeon to get r50 gear. SE should design it so that a r50 can get r50 gear in r50 content. Why do you suppose this would be ok?

[Physic]

I think it is unacceptable to force r50 players into a r30 dungeon to get r50 gear. SE should design it so that a r50 can get r50 gear in r50 content. Why do you suppose this would be ok?

it doesnt have to be r50 gear, it just has to be useful to an r50. for example

a weapon that is level 30, that can be upgraded to being a higher level weapon.

some form of currency that can be used to upgrade, or buy higher level items.

some item drop that is useful across many levels, like leaping boots or peacock charm

this wouldnt be forcing you, because you can simply get the r50 dungeon equivalents, or get that currency in the r50 dunegon, but it would give you a reason to do the dungeons, and would still be useful to a higher level theoretically, if only for having more oppurtunities to get stuff per reset.

Also since the content is 25 -30 then the next one is all the way at 45, it would give people from 30-45 something to do that wasnt easymode, but still gave a goal they could work towards.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

it doesnt have to be r50 gear, it just has to be useful to an r50. for example

a weapon that is level 30, that can be upgraded to being a higher level weapon.

some form of currency that can be used to upgrade, or buy higher level items.

some item drop that is useful across many levels, like leaping boots or peacock charm

this wouldnt be forcing you, because you can simply get the r50 dungeon equivalents, or get that currency in the r50 dunegon, but it would give you a reason to do the dungeons, and would still be useful to a higher level theoretically, if only for having more oppurtunities to get stuff per reset.

Also since the content is 25 -30 then the next one is all the way at 45, it would give people from 30-45 something to do that wasnt easymode, but still gave a goal they could work towards.

Ok two points: 1) I think anything gear wise that would be useful to a r50 in a r30 dungeon is unacceptable and cheating r50s out of content they should be able to accomplish within content of an appropriate level. 2) IF r50s got upgradeable gear from a r50 dungeon AND could farm upgrade mats from a r30 dungeon THEN I could see a point in capping a r30 dungeon because then r50s would have a reason to run 2 different dungeons for the same progression.

See? I can be reasonable. The issue is, the Devs have announced that the dungeons are uncapped which leads me to believe that a) there is no concurrent progression between the 2 dungeons and b) there shouldn't be any gear in a r30 dungeon that is desirable on a r50 character. Hopefully the Dev Team has already thought of that, but you never know.

Likewise, I have made my admission, can you concede the point that if their is no progression or gear that any r50 class could possibly desire over something else in game, that their is little reason to cap it for a r50 player?

[Physic]

Ok two points: 1) I think anything gear wise that would be useful to a r50 in a r30 dungeon is unacceptable and cheating r50s out of content they should be able to accomplish within content of an appropriate level. 2) IF r50s got upgradeable gear from a r50 dungeon AND could farm upgrade mats from a r30 dungeon THEN I could see a point in capping a r30 dungeon because then r50s would have a reason to run 2 different dungeons for the same progression.

See? I can be reasonable. The issue is, the Devs have announced that the dungeons are uncapped which leads me to believe that a) there is no concurrent progression between the 2 dungeons and b) there shouldn't be any gear in a r30 dungeon that is desirable on a r50 character. Hopefully the Dev Team has already thought of that, but you never know.

Likewise, I have made my admission, can you concede the point that if their is no progression or gear that any r50 class could possibly desire over something else in game, that their is little reason to cap it for a r50 player?

i do concede that if there is nothing useful in a level 30 dungeon than it is going to be crappy content for a level 50, and many wont go.

So from the persective of a level 50, capping the dungeon wont give it much purpose.

problem is from the perspective of a level 25-30 player, it still has a huge effect on what the normal means of playing that dungeon becomes. and the worth or style of play that will be encouraged for getting those items. they may go your route, and say screw it. But lets be honest we both know in that case the dungeons will mainly be powerlevel assisted playing, with very few people doing it at actual difficulty.


But really at the end of the day i think putting something that is useful to players of many levels in some way shape or form, and having cap on the dungeon, or some other risk versus reward protector is the best system for making strong long lasting content for the game itself.

[Lerris]

I've said something similar before... but I'll say it in more detail.

The lower-level dungeon is designed with a level 25 minimum entry.
There is no maximum level for entry.

Main path and dungeon boss is presumably balanced for a level 25 light party.
This does not rule out secondary paths and optional bosses balanced for higher level parties. This approach would help fill the 20-level gap between dungeons. It would give higher level players a reason to enter.

[Krausus]

it doesnt have to be r50 gear, it just has to be useful to an r50. for example

a weapon that is level 30, that can be upgraded to being a higher level weapon.

some form of currency that can be used to upgrade, or buy higher level items.

some item drop that is useful across many levels, like leaping boots or peacock charm

this wouldnt be forcing you, because you can simply get the r50 dungeon equivalents, or get that currency in the r50 dunegon, but it would give you a reason to do the dungeons, and would still be useful to a higher level theoretically, if only for having more oppurtunities to get stuff per reset.

Also since the content is 25 -30 then the next one is all the way at 45, it would give people from 30-45 something to do that wasnt easymode, but still gave a goal they could work towards.

you are using hypothetical issues to base your argument on, none of that stuff could be in there.