This game is play to win.

[Erepio]

i totally agree....how im ever going to get the venture specific minion and crafting mats if cant have all the ventures on, its not like i can chance the retainers class or anything


oh wait.....u can

[Nuinn]

-snip-

Indeed but, just like offline, people react in a loud way at most of the changes. More loud on the internet cause of the anonymity. In this particular case I'd say that it's cause the average user of a p2p system doesn't like the idea, or the feeling, that he's being mooched for money. Even though it may be an irrational fear and it's something completely optional which might not affect them in the slightest. Paying customer's privilege and all of that.... Or in other words, it's in the human nature to overreact and it's hardly gonna change.

As for glamour-prism-thingies and mastercraft (I'm just gonna call the new recipes like that from now on ^ ^) I'm happy. Whatever they do to make my lv50 DoH more useful and fun is fine by me.

Depends on your Hell ^^
Dante's is already frozen since ages, so maybe forums could take their turn ?

Oh, I fear the Forum Hell is much much worse than Dante's

[LexSunfire]

these forums are all about complaining. seriously, I don't even know why I check out the forums anymore. now, we're complaining about people complaining. so i'm going to complain about you complaining about other people complaining. take that!

SE can't make everyone happy, because when you try to make everyone happy you end up making no one happy. let's be real about this. FFXIV and all of its patches and updates are about getting the highest amount of profit possible. especially when FFXIV is pretty much the only reason why SE was profitable last year. so to make more profit, they ask you to pay for a new feature if you want it. end of story. time to move on with life.

[Velox]

There is a HUGE difference between pay2win and pay4convenience. Pay2win is what you see when you get cash shops that offer gear/weapons/buffs that A) can't be found in-game by any other means, and B) are so OP compared to in-game gear/buffs/weapons that they become almost mandatory for you to be effective in game against other people using them.

[Livilda]

[Drivont]

wait so extra retainers..... can we assign all of them with ventures? or just the intial two, i wonder.....

[HoneyBiscuit]

Snip and stuff

I'm not saying you can't disagree with the additional retainers. Hell I'm not saying I agree with them. I'm saying people need to stop calling it pay 2 win. It's not. People constantly spout "pay to win" but I don't think it means what they think it means. I remember someone saying pay to win in a thread about fantasia. I mean we all know lalafell give maximum dps so nobody should get fantasia potions.

The distinction is whether or not the optional services gate your progress in the game. Like needing to use a cash shop for gear strong enough to clear end game dungeons. It's so obvious what's wrong with that.

I will concede this thread if someone can provide irrefutable evidence that extra retainers are in fact, required to access all areas of content this game has to offer. I will agree this game is pay 2 win, unsub, and send that poster noodz(I'm male so make sure you know what you're getting into)

these forums are all about complaining. seriously, I don't even know why I check out the forums anymore. now, we're complaining about people complaining. so i'm going to complain about you complaining about other people complaining. take that!

I'm going to complain about your complaint of me complaining in a complaint thread about the complaints of others. Complain.

Complaints are good. If no one complained SE will think everyone is happy. Complaints have gotten them to make changes in game already. Nobody should stop complaining. Just don't forget to give SE your love too.

I've no issue with the complaints of others. I've issue with the giant overreaction to the so called "pay2win" retainers.

[Orophin]

There is a HUGE difference between pay2win and pay4convenience. Pay2win is what you see when you get cash shops that offer gear/weapons/buffs that A) can't be found in-game by any other means, and B) are so OP compared to in-game gear/buffs/weapons that they become almost mandatory for you to be effective in game against other people using them.

It's semantics really. If Ventures can be undertaken on all retainers then the guy that can pay $4 more a month than the next guy clearly has an in-game advantage, (regardless of how small it may seem) and this goes against the spirit of subscription games.

[namirei]

If every single person payed the $4 for both retainers at roughly 1.8 million players, as SE seems to claim, would be about $7.2 million in extra funds a month. Yes, not everyone will pay, but even if only half of that payed the extra $2 it's still about $1.8 million a month. Any extra income keeps the game going and content coming out without worry of going under. Just food for thought. /shrug

The OP's sarcastic opening did make me laugh though. :3

[HoneyBiscuit]

It's semantics really.

It's not semantics. It's two different, albeit slightly relative, things. Not accepting the additional cost of the service has no negative impact on your gameplay. It's for convenience. Convenience only has a positive impact on the ones who use it. There is no negative for forgoing an optional convenience.

In a pay2win situation. Not paying for the service has a negative impact on your gameplay. Generally barring you from entering certain dungeons, or granting you gear which is stronger than everyone around you who didn't pay, and is required to progress. This situation provides an advantage to others while simultaneously having a negative impact on those who don't.

Convenience is not required to enjoy the full game, and therefore not pay2win. This is the crap I'm talking about. Except not only do you not understand semantics, you also don't understand the difference between pay2win and optional services.

Someone will always be at an advantage or disadvantage. The way it happens is different. But its occurrence is a constant. Somebody having more time to play than me is an advantage. #playtowin

Any extra income keeps the game going and content coming out without worry of going under. Just food for thought. /shrug

I agree additional income to support this game is a great thing. "Any extra income" I cannot agree with as that does include pay to win. So long as the extra income they are seeking comes from providing, completely optional, convenience related services, that don't hurt anyone paying only their base sub fees, I agree.