Men in Dresses

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

I Agree, but... like Shioban perfectly said, it's all about the media. This is a business: Square-Enix wants to get profit, and this kind of sensitive subjects may go successful or be the finish blow to Final Fantasy XIV. We're not talking about "change something" (which is cool and i'm ok with it), we're talking about sales. It may be great...or not...Probably is too risky for Square-Enix

WoW was able to introduce men in dresses easily enough, that didn't seem to hurt their sales. Regardless of their reasoning for it, the fact is they still made it available, and WoW isn't the worse for wear because of it (that game's going downhill for a ton of other reasons, but certainly not that). SE could as well.

People make a huge fuss about it here, but I can bet 90% of the people howling about how wrong it is and how it shouldn't ever be added wouldn't give two shakes of a rat's tail about it if they saw in it game. Because despite what some people want to think, they can IGNORE something that isn't affecting them. Unless a guy in a dress comes up to you and starts harassing you for no reason (which they'd likely do without a dress anyway), there is nothing about men being in dresses in game that would negatively affect a player's ability to play the game.

[Mhaeric]

As a neutral party I would like to inform you, personal identity is not a right.

Yes it is.

Is that you can't label each other sides thoughts as "wrong". They simply aren't right or wrong. They're all opinions.

No, one 'side' is who someone is. The other 'side' is someone's opinion. This is why the opinion that 'men in dresses' (a transphobic description of a transwoman, by the way) is wrong carries less weight than the desire of someone who is a transwoman to be allowed her full dignity at all times. Including in a video game.

And for bloody sake people, someone is not a homophobe just because they do not agree with homosexuality.

Just like how someone is not a racist just because they do not 'agree with' (translation: like) black people. Got it. /sarcasm

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Yes it is.


No, one 'side' is who someone is. The other 'side' is someone's opinion. This is why the opinion that 'men in dresses' (a transphobic description of a transwoman, by the way) is wrong carries less weight than the desire of someone who is a transwoman to be allowed her full dignity at all times. Including in a video game.


Just like how someone is not a racist just because they do not 'agree with' (translation: like) black people. Got it. /sarcasm

Mhaeric explained it better than I could.

[Seif]

Yes it is.


No, one 'side' is who someone is. The other 'side' is someone's opinion. This is why the opinion that 'men in dresses' (a transphobic description of a transwoman, by the way) is wrong carries less weight than the desire of someone who is a transwoman to be allowed her full dignity at all times. Including in a video game.


Just like how someone is not a racist just because they do not 'agree with' (translation: like) black people. Got it. /sarcasm

You're awesome!

[Merle]

WoW was able to introduce men in dresses easily enough, that didn't seem to hurt their sales..

Mmm how many players were playing WoW when they introduced men in dresses? because FFXIV is "starting as new game". FFXIV 1.0 had really bad reputation and a lot of people is mistrustful about 2.0 (sadly, me too, and i played 1.0 since 1.20 patch, 3 years ago) . Maybe is too soon?

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Mmm how many players were playing WoW when they introduced men in dresses? because FFXIV is "starting as new game". FFXIV 1.0 had really bad reputation and a lot of people is mistrustful about 2.0 (sadly, me too, and i played 1.0 since 1.20 patch, 3 years ago) . Maybe is too soon?

1.8 million? I think? I remember hearing a total like that somewhere, could be more, could be less by now.

Regardless, the number of people playing a game means nothing. Even if WoW had the same number of people play as ARR does, they likely still wouldn't have gotten any kind of backlash over letting male characters wear dresses. ARR likely won't either, if SE would stop being so terrified of doing basically ANYTHING for fear everyone will jump ship because of grumblings over 1.0.

[Versiroth]

Actually, there are plenty of guys who see themselves as guys and identify more with their male persona but at the same time prefer to wear female clothes and make up. There's a lot more to cross dressing than embracing the little girl inside.

So, they identify as men, but like to dress and look like women? Well... color me confused as that statement really does contradict itself. Then again, I suppose I'm not one to question others reasons for doing such things, so I'll just drop it.

[Dashuto]

Just like how someone is not a racist just because they do not 'agree with' (translation: like) black people. Got it. /sarcasm

Behold just one example of millions where depending on culture and ,what you just stated as wrong is NOT WRONG and fairly normal for them.



Just like how it can be wrong to you in your culture.

Yes it is.

Why is it? Because you say it is? Where is this law that the entire world has agreed upon which states "Personal identity is a right". Please note this law would have to include identities you yourself cannot agree with.

No, one 'side' is who someone is. The other 'side' is someone's opinion. This is why the opinion that 'men in dresses' (a transphobic description of a transwoman, by the way) is wrong carries less weight than the desire of someone who is a transwoman to be allowed her full dignity at all times. Including in a video game.

That is still opinion and personal belief. You can paint it however you want, its still two sides clashing. One person will be uncomfortable with the others presence, the other is uncomfortable because they have to compromise what/who they are.

Once again place yourself in a culture outside of your present one like that image above, imagine you are a non japanese guy staring at that sign.. Should the non japanese guy dive past that sign? Is he right or will he be punished? Does he have a right to his personal identity? Should that sign not be there? Then why is it there? Personal identity is not a right.

It doesn't work that way. Know what works?

Tolerance. Tolerance of other's opinions of you, and their tolerance of yours.

I will say it again as a reminder while tensions flare: I support people who want to wear dresses ingame and I support equality in all forms. I simply don't support demonizing each other with uneducated opinions and kneejerk reactions.

[Mhaeric]

So, they identify as men, but like to dress and look like women? Well... color me confused as that statement really does contradict itself.

Google the term gender queer.

[Merle]

Regardless, the number of people playing a game means nothing.

True. I think the issue here is the community. Maybe we shouldn't compare WoW and FFXIV because they're not the same and therefore the impact is not the same. Like we shouldn't compare them with LoL community (i'm beginning to find a lot of toxic players, tho)