Men in Dresses

[Mhaeric]

As a neutral party I would like to inform you, personal identity is not a right.

Yes it is.

Is that you can't label each other sides thoughts as "wrong". They simply aren't right or wrong. They're all opinions.

No, one 'side' is who someone is. The other 'side' is someone's opinion. This is why the opinion that 'men in dresses' (a transphobic description of a transwoman, by the way) is wrong carries less weight than the desire of someone who is a transwoman to be allowed her full dignity at all times. Including in a video game.

And for bloody sake people, someone is not a homophobe just because they do not agree with homosexuality.

Just like how someone is not a racist just because they do not 'agree with' (translation: like) black people. Got it. /sarcasm

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Yes it is.


No, one 'side' is who someone is. The other 'side' is someone's opinion. This is why the opinion that 'men in dresses' (a transphobic description of a transwoman, by the way) is wrong carries less weight than the desire of someone who is a transwoman to be allowed her full dignity at all times. Including in a video game.


Just like how someone is not a racist just because they do not 'agree with' (translation: like) black people. Got it. /sarcasm

Mhaeric explained it better than I could.

[Seif]

Yes it is.


No, one 'side' is who someone is. The other 'side' is someone's opinion. This is why the opinion that 'men in dresses' (a transphobic description of a transwoman, by the way) is wrong carries less weight than the desire of someone who is a transwoman to be allowed her full dignity at all times. Including in a video game.


Just like how someone is not a racist just because they do not 'agree with' (translation: like) black people. Got it. /sarcasm

You're awesome!

[Dashuto]

Just like how someone is not a racist just because they do not 'agree with' (translation: like) black people. Got it. /sarcasm

Behold just one example of millions where depending on culture and ,what you just stated as wrong is NOT WRONG and fairly normal for them.



Just like how it can be wrong to you in your culture.

Yes it is.

Why is it? Because you say it is? Where is this law that the entire world has agreed upon which states "Personal identity is a right". Please note this law would have to include identities you yourself cannot agree with.

No, one 'side' is who someone is. The other 'side' is someone's opinion. This is why the opinion that 'men in dresses' (a transphobic description of a transwoman, by the way) is wrong carries less weight than the desire of someone who is a transwoman to be allowed her full dignity at all times. Including in a video game.

That is still opinion and personal belief. You can paint it however you want, its still two sides clashing. One person will be uncomfortable with the others presence, the other is uncomfortable because they have to compromise what/who they are.

Once again place yourself in a culture outside of your present one like that image above, imagine you are a non japanese guy staring at that sign.. Should the non japanese guy dive past that sign? Is he right or will he be punished? Does he have a right to his personal identity? Should that sign not be there? Then why is it there? Personal identity is not a right.

It doesn't work that way. Know what works?

Tolerance. Tolerance of other's opinions of you, and their tolerance of yours.

I will say it again as a reminder while tensions flare: I support people who want to wear dresses ingame and I support equality in all forms. I simply don't support demonizing each other with uneducated opinions and kneejerk reactions.

[Xandim]

text

The sad thing is that laws in almost every country doesn't keep up with current times. I mean, here where I live cyber crimes are still shady and doesn't have a proper law for it. A few years ago a popular TV star got her nude pictures taken and published on several websites, and just then they created a law against publishing those kind of pics.... Idk the specifics bout the law tho, so cant discuss about it xD.....

But what im trying to say is that law takes some time to catch up with the present. In some countries some laws are even from the last century.

PS: This is for the law part thing =P
PS2: sorry but english isnt my native language, hope u get what im saying >.<

[Dashuto]

The sad thing is that laws in almost every country doesn't keep up with current times. I mean, here where I live cyber crimes are still shady and doesn't have a proper law for it. A few years ago a popular TV star got her nude pictures taken and published on several websites, and just then they created a law against publishing those kind of pics.... Idk the specifics bout the law tho, so cant discuss about it xD.....

But what im trying to say is that law takes some time to catch up with the present. In some countries some laws are even from the last century.

You are 100% correct, and it is a very good point. I will add that social norms take even longer than the laws. We also should remind ourselves there are some cultures that will /never/ agree with the western ideals of equality. I dare not name them directly, but I am sure you can make accurate assumptions.

[Synapse]

You are 100% correct, and it is a very good point. I will add that social norms take even longer than the laws. We also should remind ourselves there are some cultures that will /never/ agree with the western ideals of equality. I dare not name them directly, but I am sure you can make accurate assumptions.

Also, another country agreeing or disagreeing from their perspective does not make them wrong either.

[Dashuto]

Also, another country agreeing or disagreeing from their perspective does not make them wrong either.

This thread is finally getting somewhere. There may yet be hope!

[Mhaeric]

That is still opinion and personal belief. You can paint it however you want, its still two sides clashing. One person will be uncomfortable with the others presence, the other is uncomfortable because they have to compromise what/who they are.

There is a significant difference between compromising one's opinion about someone's identity and compromising one's identity itself. Those are not equal.

I don't know how to process a discriminatory sign, however legal it may be in it's location, being used to support tolerating discrimination. You're basically saying discrimination exists, therefore it should simply be tolerated because it's someone's opinion. There is such a disconnect of logic there I don't know how to even approach a discussion. I'll just posit that just because a certain discrimination is culturally accepted, doesn't mean that it should be tolerated.

[Versiroth]

snip

What you're not seeing is that by not tolerating and respecting someone's culture or beliefs that clash with your own, you're really no better than them. You both have a different belief structure. To them, you trying to insert homosexuality beliefs into their life is the same as them trying to take it away from you. You don't like it and neither do they. Who's right and who's wrong here? Who's beliefs win? Both groups need to simply acknowledge and respect the others and respectively agree to disagree.

Again, I'm not religious and I don't have an issue with LGBT people, but tolerance in one's beliefs goes both ways. When people try to tell me I'm wrong for not believing in god, I simply say that I respect their right to believe what they want and that they should extend me that same courtesy. You can't expect people to embrace your beliefs and at the same time call them names and insult them for their own.