Instanced Raids Unveiled!

[Airlea]

...This is why doing the rank 30 dungeons as a rank 30 character should reward you appropriately with uber rank 30 gear, whereas doing the rank 30 dungeon as a rank 50 character should not reward you with uber rank 30 gear because you didn't earn it...

So what's one of the big perks to grinding a job to 50? It makes a lot of other stuff easier. That's part of your reward. Part of what you earned in achieving max rank. It sounds strangely like you're suggesting that no one would ever need gear for another r30 job again, and that if they do, they should only be able to obtain it on that job before they hit r30.

...If the current R30 NMs are any indication, then you will. There are several pieces of R30 NM gear that are useful for endgame...

Did you farm any of that gear? Did you make sure you were on a rank appropriate job before engaging the NMs? I mean, surely a r50 shouldn't be able to solo and obtain gear for another job. They didn't earn it amirite?

[Rentahamster]

So what's one of the big perks to grinding a job to 50? It makes a lot of other stuff easier. That's part of your reward. Part of what you earned in achieving max rank.

Yes, of course it makes stuff easier. And that's perfectly fine when applied to the over-world. It's not fine when applied to dungeons that are designed with difficulty in mind. It especially clashes with the stated design goals of "rewarding skillful play".

Did you farm any of that gear? Did you make sure you were on a rank appropriate job before engaging the NMs? I mean, surely a r50 shouldn't be able to solo and obtain gear for another job. They didn't earn it amirite?

Of course I farmed the gear. No one in their right mind is going to fight stuff at a lower rank if they don't have to. That is why in certain applications, like a specifically designed raid dungeon, level caps are good to maintain value and gameplay longevity.

[Airlea]

Of course I farmed the gear. No one in their right mind is going to fight stuff at a lower rank if they don't have to. That is why in certain applications, like a specifically designed raid dungeon, level caps are good to maintain value and gameplay longevity.

So in other words I just got the "well, that's different..."

It's different because it's NMs that drop r30 gear? 99% of it you won't use endgame, and even then it's situational. No different than the gear from the 30 dungeons I'd imagine. That's why so few care if r50s could roll through it. Let them. They'd be farming temporary gear for the grind on another job. I really don't see what the big deal is. Let other people play how other people want to. It's not like this would somehow prevent you from choosing to do the content at a lower rank.

[Rentahamster]

So in other words I just got the "well, that's different..."

It IS different.

It's different because the current NMs are open-world and anyone can fight them. That's the nature of open-world.

It's different because the dungeon content is supposed to be specifically designed to be difficult, and it's not difficult if you can just steamroll through the rank 30 dungeon with a rank 50 class.

99% of it you won't use endgame, and even then it's situational.

Nope. There are many R30 NM items that are used in endgame: Kokoroon armor, Conqistador Elmo, Nighthawk Visor, Eternal Shade, Vambraces, Penance, Seer's Cowl, Bilaud.

so youll do it at 50 because you can?

I do it at 50 because it's a waste of my time otherwise.

but what happens if you friends dont want you on a 50? they want you on a 30 character, would you go down to 30 to do it? or would you tell them to F off?
i personaly would use the character appropriate to the group, and id be very happy to have the CHOICE to do so

If they asked me to come as a lower rank class, of course I would do that. I still have rank 30-ish classes to rank up so that would be fine.

It's funny that you give this scenario as your example of having a "CHOICE", since if my friends want me to play, and I want to play as a R30 Thaumatuge, I do not have the "CHOICE" to do so because I am a rank 50 THM.

Your argument for "no level caps" is for players to have the CHOICE to steamroll dungeons as a rank 50 character, not to accommodate their friends.

cuz guess what, the r30 dungeon is FILLER not meant to keep you occupied over and over and over, thats the r50 dungeons job

the r30 dungeon is filler til you get to the r50

And if the R30 dungeon had level caps, it would no longer be filler, and would actually be real, repeatable content, just like the rank 50 dungeon.

This is the whole reason why BCNM fights are level capped in FF11.

[TheVedis]

It IS different.

It's different because the current NMs are open-world and anyone can fight them. That's the nature of open-world.

It's different because the dungeon content is supposed to be specifically designed to be difficult, and it's not difficult if you can just steamroll through the rank 30 dungeon with a rank 50 class.


Nope. There are many R30 NM items that are used in endgame: Kokoroon armor, Conqistador Elmo, Nighthawk Visor, Eternal Shade, Vambraces, Penance, Seer's Cowl, Bilaud.


I do it at 50 because it's a waste of my time otherwise.


If they asked me to come as a lower rank class, of course I would do that. I still have rank 30-ish classes to rank up so that would be fine.

It's funny that you give this scenario as your example of having a "CHOICE", since if my friends want me to play, and I want to play as a R30 Thaumatuge, I do not have the "CHOICE" to do so because I am a rank 50 THM.

Your argument for "no level caps" is for players to have the CHOICE to steamroll dungeons as a rank 50 character, not to accommodate their friends.



And if the R30 dungeon had level caps, it would no longer be filler, and would actually be real, repeatable content, just like the rank 50 dungeon.

This is the whole reason why BCNM fights are level capped in FF11.

so if you want a choice to do it on 30 thm instead of 50 thm, and caps were "optional" then that would be that standard be ok then wouldnt it?

so a forced cap doesnt matter, an optional one would be ok to you?

[Rentahamster]

so if you want a choice to do it on 30 thm instead of 50 thm, and caps were "optional" then that would be that standard be ok then wouldnt it?

so a forced cap doesnt matter, an optional one would be ok to you?

As I've said before, an optional cap is perfectly fine, as long as I don't get rewarded with good R30 loot for zerging through a R30 dungeon with a rank 50 character.

[TheVedis]

As I've said before, an optional cap is perfectly fine, as long as I don't get rewarded with good R30 loot for zerging through a R30 dungeon with a rank 50 character.

you can always drop that loot if you feel you didnt deserve it

but again, you shouldnt force your opinion of that on others, they earned it, and it isnt up to you to determine if they did or did not