Instanced Raids Unveiled!

[Peregrine]

r50s cant solo the r30 dungeon anyway

so your arguement is moot right then and there

I could solo the R30 NMs if they unlocked the player requirements, so your input is irrelevant. I can destroy a party of rank 30's as a rank 50.
So yeah. I'd be soloing the R30 dungeon. Maybe you wouldn't on whatever caliber of conjurer or thaumaturge you have.

I'm not you. Pretty obvious.

[TheVedis]

I could solo the R30 NMs if they unlocked the player requirements, so your input is irrelevant. I can destroy a party of rank 30's as a rank 50.
So yeah. I'd be soloing the R30 dungeon. Maybe you wouldn't on whatever caliber of conjurer or thaumaturge you have.

I'm not you. Pretty obvious.

nope, you still cant solo the r30 dungeon
you still obviously have no idea what has been stated about these dungeons

[Elkwood]

I could solo the R30 NMs if they unlocked the player requirements, so your input is irrelevant. I can destroy a party of rank 30's as a rank 50.
So yeah. I'd be soloing the R30 dungeon. Maybe you wouldn't on whatever caliber of conjurer or thaumaturge you have.

I'm not you. Pretty obvious.

No you wont as the Dev comment said you must have 4 ppl to enter at said level so no you wont be soloing them

[Peregrine]

No you wont as the Dev comment said you must have 4 ppl to enter at said level so no you wont be soloing them

Lalafell clones say HI.
You all actually think you can post something that will surprise me is the amazing thing.

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

Lalafell clones say HI.
You all actually think you can post something that will surprise me is the amazing thing.

If someone is willing to level up 4 characters to 25 then more power to them, also Lala clones won't be as much as a big deal when they start charging. I mean who in the hell would pay for 4 characters to solo a dungeon?

[TirionCrey]

I could solo the R30 NMs if they unlocked the player requirements, so your input is irrelevant. I can destroy a party of rank 30's as a rank 50.
So yeah. I'd be soloing the R30 dungeon. Maybe you wouldn't on whatever caliber of conjurer or thaumaturge you have.

I'm not you. Pretty obvious.

No you won't cause you NEED to be in a group of 4 people to enter the dungeon. And what the fuck is wrong with you. It's a R30 dungeon...so its tuned for R30s, not R50s...if you want a challenge in it, you need to go in it as R30, not R50...and this applies to ALL MMORPGs out there. Once you overlevel something, it becomes easier, but it's not content for the high lvls, its content for the low lvls, so there is nothing wrong with it. As a R50 there should be nothing of interest in the R30 dnugeon for you anyway...so obviously you enter and try to get the R50 dungeon done...and its tuned for R50, so the word "difficult" applie to it as much as it does to the R30 dnugeon, cause its tuned for that.

If you want a difficult R30 dungeon that even R50s have a hard time finishing it, why would you call it R30...you are just retarded. Use your common sense, or do other people need to chew your food for you? If Yoshida says "difficult" to both dungeons, he obviously means difficult for the TARGETED group of people the content was made for, which would be R30s in the case of the lower rank dungeon. THINK!

To the topic: Can people actually start to think? People want challenge in dungeons...they want difficulty...they want endgame content...well...I'm sorry but if you're allowed to bring as many peolpe as you wish, there is no challenge anymore. Content must be tuned for a specific size of groups to make it challenging, otherwise all balancing is in vain. So if you have trouble getting together a group of 8, start recruiting people that are interested in that kind of content. If you got too many ppl showing up and some have to sit out, get some rotation going...it's not that hard...beating endgame content means organising shit and if you're not able to do that, you shouldn't lead a LS in the first place that wants to do endgame. Endgame requires organisation and people who can think of stuff beforehand and deal with it in a proper manner with solutions. If you got members who are not willing to join in on the R50 dungeon every 2nd run, instead of EACH one, they are greedy lil lootwhores and you should sort them out anyway...

2nd possible conclusion, get enough for 2 groups and nobody/less ppl need to sit out. If you got more than 16 active players wanting to participate in endgame(which is unlikely at the current state of FFXIV), well, then some ppl have to sit out, but that's life... As long as the lockout timer for the dungeon won't be more than 2-3 days, I'm fine with sitting out every now and then, that's part of playing endgame...in XI you had to sit out on stuff like Bahamut v2, or Omega/Ultima as well, if more than 18ppl showed up. Sometimes you have to sit out, cause you don't have the class lvld thats needed...so there is a lot of reasons someone has to sit out and if that someone is not willing to do that...well fuck him...

PS: I can't wait for the threads about "PLS NERF R50 dungeon" cause my pick up group of mentally retarded people can't finish it within the timelimit...

[Xenor]

in XI you had to sit out on stuff like Bahamut v2, or Omega/Ultima as well, if more than 18ppl showed up. .

It's one thing sitting out because you have too many show up, but quite another to sit out because you're one or two members short of the requirement. No one is asking to enter this dungeon with 9 or 10 people. We're asking to enter it with 6-7 in a situation where 12-15 people show up. If 9 turn up then tough luck on the 9th, but the content should be manageable (although more difficult) with 6 or 7. The fact the developers are willing to consider lowering the requirement at all tells you this.

[TirionCrey]

It's one thing sitting out because you have too many show up, but quite another to sit out because you're one or two members short of the requirement. No one is asking to enter this dungeon with 9 or 10 people. We're asking to enter it with 6-7 in a situation where 12-15 people show up. If 9 turn up then tough luck on the 9th, but the content should be manageable (although more difficult) with 6 or 7. The fact the developers are willing to consider lowering the requirement at all tells you this.

If a group of 6-7 playere are able to finish it(even with more difficulty) the whole purpose of balancing it around 8 players is stupid. Endgame in XIV is gonna be tuned for 8man PTs. You knew that since the Letter from the Producer from the beginning of the year...if you're now getting "angry" about that, go figure...I'm not against being able to ENTER the dungeon with less than 8 people, cause that requirement seems kinda strange...but in all honestly...they shouldn't be able to beat it with less than 8ppl...maybe get some stuff done in the dungeon, but if they are able to comlpetely beat with less than 8, the whole "difficulty and challenge" debate would go out of hand. Its tuned for 8 and its gonna be difficult for 8, making it possible to beat with less than 8, makes the whole reason of it being tuned for 8 obsolete.

Once people get better gear over time and stuff, the challenge will be less and less for 8man groups(and groups of 6-7 might be able to beat it)...but that's where new content tuned for those people should be rdy so...this is an endless cycle and if they start making it faceroll from the getgo...I'm done and say goodbye.

[Airlea]

but in all honestly...they shouldn't be able to beat it with less than 8ppl...maybe get some stuff done in the dungeon, but if they are able to comlpetely beat with less than 8, the whole "difficulty and challenge" debate would go out of hand.

Your 8 people aren't my 8 people aren't his 8 people. It's easy to say no one should be able to beat it with less than 8 people, but realistically you'd be alienating most of the player population in the process. By default, most players are average in skill level. To raise the difficulty to the level you suggest would mean targeting only the most elite players and making it near impossible for them. Anything less would be mean they could more than likely accomplish the same with 7 people.

[TirionCrey]

Your 8 people aren't my 8 people aren't his 8 people. It's easy to say no one should be able to beat it with less than 8 people, but realistically you'd be alienating most of the player population in the process. By default, most players are average in skill level. To raise the difficulty to the level you suggest would mean targeting only the most elite players and making it near impossible for them. Anything less would be mean they could more than likely accomplish the same with 7 people.

I'm not talking about the best elite super awesome Chuck Norris players only. But just going by the fact that 1 out of 8 players equals 12.5% performance of the group(assuming everyone is on the same lvl skillwise) and being able to do it with 6-7 people, that equals beating the dungeon with a performance equal to 75-87.5% of the capability of a 8man group. Sorry if a group is able to complete a dungeon with only 75% of the capable performance of a full PT, then the dungeon tuning can be deemed as a fail. Cause a difference of 25% in neccesarry performance to get it done is way more than it should be to call it "difficult".

PS: This is all assuming that 8man group consists of reasonable players who know how to play(common sense and knowledge of game mechanics, not the uber pros who deal 2% more dmg than the average pro blah blah BS). Players not able to play shouldn't be able to clear this even with 10+ people...

And having played a lot of MMOs I know that these players still provide the majority of the playerbase. But tuning everything around stupidity doesn't make it better. I'm just asking of tunement where common sense and "knowledge" of your class is needed, rather than just going in and do whatever, it will work out anyway stuff.

PPS: I don't want the dungeon to be tuned for the average players, cause the average in an MMO is somewhere between stupid and ignorant. The endgame should be tuned around the 30% of players who actually know what they are doing and are able to think.