How viable is "Eye for an Eye", "Hawk Eye" and "Quelling Strikes" for a BLM?

[Umero]

pretty much what every one said. Quelling is a must. E4E is good to have. Hawk Eye is not worth to waste a slot.

[Pinworms]

It's a down right bummer the cross class skills are such a drag for BLM.

[Suroruro]

Quelling is a crutch for bad tanks, Pure and simple. Not even a fresh 50 Tank has any excuse outside of you getting a lot of crits. But I say this as someone whose only tanked as a WAR and they have a TON of aggro. Maybe PLD has it harder, Someone can probably weigh in on this.
Eye for an Eye isn't great, But its also not something you should really do without, If it procs its pretty damn good.
That other xclass which must not be named doesn't do anything worth mentioning.
Ruin or Truth of the X is clearly the best use of your last xclass slot, Since you don't need quelling or that other Bard thing.

[NeoAmon]

Snip

No, no & NO.

You can have the best tank in the world and (s)he would still lose agrro to a BLM/Bard without QS in many situations. There are encounters which are designed to be tough to hold aggro and then you have the gear difference issue.

If DD out gear the tank by a mile then there is no chance in hell (s)he would be able to hold aggro 100% of the time. It is a game mechanic not a matter of good vs bad tank.

[Suroruro]

Snip 2.0

I have no idea how it is for a PLD, But a WAR has no excuse to ever lose aggro barring a LARGE amount of crits early on in a fight. (Ignoring DPS who facepull with all their cooldowns active and unload, Thats a tough one to recover from if you cant hit the boss) That said, as a BLM I always open with Blizzard 3 - Fire 3 so maybe im not getting a proper feel for what aggro other DPS are pulling in that first precious GCD first hand. I play my WAR fairly often, Aggro is never an issue unless your one of those people who wants to open with a maim combo.

None of the tanks I play with have ever had any issue with aggro, And neither have I. Ive only had trouble with very bad pickup group tanks who don't utilize their kits properly.

[Dei-Nite]

Snip 3.0

I read constantly but rarely post. I disagree so strongly with the above that I felt I had to add by 2c.

Currently there are 2-3 encounters in Coil that if you are not using QS, even with the best tank in the world, you are not doing your job.

1. Turn 2: Third add going down the left side (facing outwards). This add negates some of the damage a tank will do and subsequently negates a certain percentage of their threat. If you are not using QS, you are either holding back dps (in which case you are not doing your job) or will likely pull aggro. Depending on the tank, you may still have to slow down dps slightly but without QS that slowdown is significantly more.

2. Turn 4: Phase 2 of the fight. If you are not going all out on the soldier right from the start, you are not doing your job. If you are doing your job right, any crit in the first 2-3 casts will absolutely mean you will pull aggro without having QS up.


3. Turn 5: This is much more relevant if you are single tanking the fight but QS is a huge help in going all out on the adds up during the pull. Again if you are not going all out on a hard enrage fight, you are not doing your job.


Obviously these examples are limited to raiding/coil encounters. I agree for general grouping, QS is less important (if only because pulling off the tank in that scenario is less likely to have severe repercussions). However, even in dungeons, a BLM should be able to pull aggro at will if they are using their full aoe rotation on an aoe pack (no matter what lvl skill the tank has) - its just math. Overpower or flash cannot keep up with Fire II spam and a double flare cast that crits. Using QS will keep your tank happy.

[Suroruro]

1. Turn 2: Third add going down the left side (facing outwards). --- I wont comment too deeply on this way as we never go this way with our statics tanks, But its generally all DPS holding back for this one even those with quelling as far as i've seen, Admittedly that's based on pickup groups whom are generally worse in general. and less experienced in their roles.

2. Turn 4: Phase 2 of the fight. --- My tanks have no problems holding both adds, And I didn't have any issue when I tanked it, I don't see quelling as a reliable enough use here as it would end up doing nothing most of the time. (Monks are in a much bigger threat of taking aggro)


3. Turn 5: This is much more relevant if you are single tanking the fight --- I havent done it with a single tank, So I wont comment on it, But with 2 tanks Ive never had any trouble with it aswell, So its hard to comment on the usefulness of quelling here...Again



-Minisnip- its just math. Overpower or flash cannot keep up with Fire II spam and a double flare cast that crits. Using QS will keep your tank happy. --- I have no idea about flash, My PLD isnt to 40 yet. But Overpower is much more aggro than you might think, Especially with maim/zerk/unchained or even just maim. Aggro is never an issue on big pulls. I kept aggro on a pull in Haukke HM earlier today and I forgot defiance. Admittedly I lost aggro on one mob because he was out of the cone at the start but that's hyur error.

So I mostly place blame on your tanks if you think quelling is ever /needed/ its a luxury to make their 'easy' job easier. The only valid argument I have heard for it being a required Xclass was someone saying that using quelling would allow a tank to open with maim combo, Which seems unlikely to me.

So I guess im saying that while it may indeed make my tanks happy, I'll stick with my Truth of the Mountains as my 5th xclass.

[ShinryuReishiki]

Quelling Strikes is useful in any sort of encounter that is timed or has adds/phases that need to die as quickly as possible; Quelling Strikes enables you go flying out the gate rather than having to wait a moment. It won't always prove necessary, but I'd rather ensure there are no issues than assume there won't be any, especially when running with party/duty finder groups.

[Suroruro]

I'd rather ensure there are no issues than assume there won't be any, especially when running with party/duty finder groups.

Now there's the best argument for it yet.

[Dei-Nite]

So I mostly place blame on your tanks if you think quelling is ever /needed/ its a luxury to make their 'easy' job easier. The only valid argument I have heard for it being a required Xclass was someone saying that using quelling would allow a tank to open with maim combo, Which seems unlikely to me.

So I guess im saying that while it may indeed make my tanks happy, I'll stick with my Truth of the Mountains as my 5th xclass.

We can agree to disagree but I would suggest your raiding experience may not translate well to most other groups. I would point to the fact that you are concerned that monks (arguably the highest dps in the game but one that takes a few seconds "rev" up) would pull aggro in a burst situation over a BLM (arguably the highest burst dps in the game). I am not saying it is impossible given different player skill level but I would argue this is pretty atypical.


If you accept the above then it must follow that your advice about QS would be very limited in scope.