support jobs

[Luso]

Support class is something I feel like is missing from this game.

[Fuddy]

I don't think for the current content up to level 50 there is much of a need for support roles. I think there is plenty of room to move Bard in a more support focused direction when we eventually see expansions to level 60-70. We can then probably see new jobs (both support and not) that can unlock at 50 which are meant specifically for post-50 content. That content can then be designed with supports in mind. It's unlikely they will want to add pure supports for lower levels because current content might need to be adjusted for them.

I personally would like to see a job that is based around maintaining crowd control. This is really old school but the Enchanter class from the original EQ comes to mind. Having crowd control spell with an unknown duration that can break at any time can actually be quite intense when combined with trying to debuf and manage your mana at the same time. This kind of job could easily grow out from current arcanist or thaumaturge classes.

[Nahara]

It's very hard to balance a pure support class, because its buffs and debuffs are either powerful enough that everyone is more-or-less forced to bring one (and could trivialize content), or so weak nobody wants one in the party.

[Seschat]

In reading and responding to this thread, I must remind myself that no game on earth would consider allowing a City of Heroes level of Support: Buff, Debuff, Crowd Control. Lets be honest, our CC is pretty mediocre.

So lets think usefully here. Buffs, let's steal from the Log Horizon anime, or FF9: could we cast Enthunder on the tank, so he earns more enimity, or Envenom on a Damage Dealer? Debuffs: Armor Break, Magic Break, Paralyze or Slow with a duration close to that from FF11. Crowd Control: could we have an honest to goodness non-fragile Immobilize? The mob has his ranged attacks, he has his melee, but he's nailed down to one spot and not galumphing about after the squishies. I know better than to even dream of a Hold.

A solid support character should be a force multiplier for his party, not just offer a slight edge that could easily be ignored if you filled his spot with another Blackmage.

[Nahara]

A solid support character should be a force multiplier for his party, not just offer a slight edge that could easily be ignored if you filled his spot with another Blackmage.

And this is exactly why pure support classes are so hard to balance. If their buffs and debuffs are too powerful, you all but force groups to always bring one along in order to be as strong and efficient as possible, at the expense of the players who don't have it or don't want to level it. BRDs in XI had this very problem and I don't recall it ever being solved by the time I left; the buffs and debuffs provided by BRDs were so powerful every group had to have one (getting a party as a BRD was about as easy as getting one as a tank).

[Assirra]

And this is exactly why pure support classes are so hard to balance. If their buffs and debuffs are too powerful, you all but force groups to always bring one along in order to be as strong and efficient as possible, at the expense of the players who don't have it or don't want to level it. BRDs in XI had this very problem and I don't recall it ever being solved by the time I left; the buffs and debuffs provided by BRDs were so powerful every group had to have one (getting a party as a BRD was about as easy as getting one as a tank).

So how is that any different than tank or healer?

[Cspr_Answrth]

I already eat TP on my Bard for breakfast as is... adding 5 more TP consuming skills isn't going to help me to more DPS, it's going to raise it really high, and then it's going to plummet when I need it most.
Invigorate only goes so far.

Your counterargument will be: "but the support can regen your TP" - this doesn't work because I won't always be playing in a party.

If I am solo'ing, I need survivability. Moreover, if a support class is solo'ing, they are going to be killing things forever with their low damage output... or die from their inevitable squishiness.

[whoopeeragon]

So how is that any different than tank or healer?

Namely that we have 2 tanks and 2 healers. If there is ever a case of a support discipline added, it would likely be only ONE of its role, making it by far the most 'in demand' discipline.

[Lurkios]

The problem with support classes that aren't DPS is that if they make a class that does nothing but "bebuff" or "Buff" the party, they would need to make those buffs/debuffs last about 15 seconds each to allow that class to have something to do otherwise people would level said class, change to it, buff everyone up, and then change back to the main class.

What about enemy debuffs? Give them an attack that puts a debuff on the enemy for 3-5 seconds, allow for a rotation that strengthens the debuff, or adds in new debuffs/status effects. Silences/stuns/perhaps a way to remove debuffs on friendlies - there's plenty they could be doing.

Beyond this, we would also have to face the problem of the new party layout "Tank, Tank, Healer, Healer, De/Buffer, DPS, DPS, DPS". So we're losing a DPS slot which means that things won't die as fast and a whole slew of issues would rise up in regards to rebalancing the whole thing.

So the "support" is completely useless? Were the support to focus on buffing dps/lowering enemy defense I'd expect it to (more than?) make up for the DPS slot it's filling.

[Synapse]

There cannot be a pure support class in FFXIV, maybe a hybird, like moderate dps + support.