Too much dancing

[Viridiana]

Vox strategy from EQ (http://eqpathfinders.guildportal.com...icID=7708076):

Sorry, but I'm not really a fan of any battle where the strategy for my portion is "Come in at 50%, press 1 until boss dies."

[Simaril]

Sorry, but I'm not really a fan of any battle where the strategy for my portion is "Come in at 50%, press 1 until boss dies."

Simple answer: encounters focused on keep in place and pressing 111111121111121111114 are helluva much more boring.

Part of what you're missing there, is that it really, really, really sucked if you wiped, and it took a lot of time and effort and socialization to put a raid together.
In titan HM some groups just auto attack for phase 1 until LB bar is half full... similar concept...

Now you que up in DF, you don't even need to say hello, you could literally turn your chat window off, and if you wipe you just try again 10 seconds later. This wonderful conveniece has come at the cost of the need to actually find decent people, follow precise instructions, and build relationships.

And again, I'm really not sure I understand why you want to play a dancing game??? Yes, the game needs some interesting mechanics... but not the same one over and over and over again. So while standing and pushing a button weren't hard, getting it set up was hard, and execution HAD TO BE perfect. Also, trash was a major issue. Trash could respawn anytime, so you almost needed a group to handle trash that continued to respawn, while the main party dealt with the boss... one of the next bosses actually ran away... Again, I'm ot saying I want to go back and play MMOs from 1999, but I am saying they were challanging, engaging, and fun... while newer games have removed old challanges to replace them with dancing.

There was another boss in a later x-pac that during a certain phase if anyone used any magic spell on the boss, it full cured... which caused many many wipes so yes; NOT hitting a button can be challanging too. And finding reliable people amd the experience entirely more do-able, and enjoyable.

[Trashy]

Part of what you're missing there, is that it really, really, really sucked if you wiped, and it took a lot of time and effort and socialization to put a raid together.

Now you que up in DF, you don't even need to say hello, you could literally turn your chat window off, and if you wipe you just try again 10 seconds later. This wonderful conveniece has come at the cost of the need to actually find decent people, follow precise instructions, and build relationships.

That's exactly it. I don't want the challenge to be in putting up with BS like that. That's organizational stuff, and it's not fun. If I wanted to spend time trying to find competent people, get them to follow instructions, and build relationships, I'd spend more time at work. When I game, I want to play the game, not prepare to play it.

If FFXIV is a game about dancing, fine. I'd much rather play a dancing game than a game about organizing a dance party.

There was another boss in a later x-pac that during a certain phase if anyone used any magic spell on the boss, it full cured... which caused many many wipes so yes; NOT hitting a button can be challanging too. And finding reliable people amd the experience entirely more do-able, and enjoyable.

That's not challenging, it's stupid. It doesn't take any sort of skill to not use a spell on the boss. From your description of EQ bosses, it sounds like a good 50+% of the roles could be done with a basic script.

[Simaril]

That's not challenging, it's stupid. It doesn't take any sort of skill to not use a spell on the boss. From your description of EQ bosses, it sounds like a good 50+% of the roles could be done with a basic script.

I think I actually agree with you on this point. The big difference is... in EQ and other early games with raids... you had one shot at executing a realtively easy script that had to be done precisely, not the inifinte attempts that the new model affords.

[Sibyll]

Part of what you're missing there, is that it really, really, really sucked if you wiped, and it took a lot of time and effort and socialization to put a raid together.

Now you que up in DF, you don't even need to say hello, you could literally turn your chat window off, and if you wipe you just try again 10 seconds later. This wonderful conveniece has come at the cost of the need to actually find decent people, follow precise instructions, and build relationships.

Once again, I fail to see what is "challenging, engaging, and fun" about just standing and waiting for half a fight and then spamming the same button for the other half, or being patient during a phase and resisting the urge to do anything.

What you described about Duty Finder is absolutely correct and true for every cross server group finder. No one cares about building relationships in that because nine times out of ten you won't be with anyone from your own server. It's an inherent flaw for convenience. And this is perfectly fine because Party Finder exists.

Also, wiping in Duty Finder may not be an issue for trivial content, but wiping repeatedly on Ultima HM and Extreme Primals makes you appreciate the value of a server group formed in party finder.

It really sounds like you'd describe anything more than standing still as a dancing simulator and hitting anything more than a single button as guitar hero.

I think I actually agree with you on this point. The big difference is... in EQ and other early games with raids... you had one shot at executing a realtively easy script that had to be done precisely, not the inifinte attempts that the new model affords.

I'd like to see a system where wiping is more heavily punished. I find that people are more willing to run into a brick wall for 30+ mins wiping than to actually take a moment to think if what they are doing is the best approach. I'll agree with you on this.