Anyone tried i90 ACN?

[Viridiana]

SMN can crit the following every 3 seconds: Bio II, Miasma, Bio, Shadowflare, (this is already a higher # of things that can crit than BRD's 2 DoTs + Flaming Arrow every 30sec), Ruin I/II, Pet attack, Auto Attack, and Miasma II if its Contagioned. That's 5 attacks that you should have up 100% of the time and 2 more (Miasma II and Auto attacks) that get used situationally. So that's 5-7 attacks that all can crit independent of eachother. And that's not even counting the spell speed trait when your pet crits or Fester/ED criting. SMN is a crit based job through simple probability.

Not counting your auto-attack, that's approximately 116 chances to crit. Windbite, Venomous Bite, Flame Arrow, all our OGCD abilities, our GCD abilities, and our auto-attack add up to somewhere around 110 for BRD, depending on RoB procs. What's your argument, again?

[loldrg]

Not counting your auto-attack, that's approximately 116 chances to crit. Windbite, Venomous Bite, Flame Arrow, all our OGCD abilities, our GCD abilities, and our auto-attack add up to somewhere around 110 for BRD, depending on RoB procs. What's your argument, again?

Torin stated he considers Bard to be a crit based class and SMN not to be. My argument is that if SMN has more actions that can crit independently of each other every GCD / 3 seconds then Summoner should also be considered a crit based class. The more things that can independently crit per GCD, the more importance crit should logically have to you.

Last time I checked 116 > 110 (assuming your #s are correct? What is the time period you are even measuring?) which means that SMN has more actions that crit, which means that if BRD is a CRIT based class, SMN should be considered to be one too.

Just as an aside, you should also count auto attacks. SMN(and SCH) have drastically higher STR(70 STR on my character) than other mage jobs (BLM/WHM). You can be in melee auto attack range for every 'endgame' fight in game with the exception of T2 ADS (because of rot passing), parts of Garuda Ex, and nail phases on Ifrit Ex, and post snake phase in Turn 5. You can definitely melee the nails on Ifrit if you're suicidal, during sisters phases in Garuda Extreme if you're confident in your Wicked Wheel dodging skills, but that's just a tangent to this aside. The point is is that Ruin II + book auto attacks are a net DPS gain equivalent to another dot tick over using Ruin I exclusively and any MP issues you might have doing this resolved themselves in 2.1 once we lost Thunder. So technically the 116 vs 110 # should be even larger because you can get in an auto attack every GCD where you aren't reapplying dots.

[Viridiana]

Last time I checked 116 > 110 (assuming your #s are correct? What is the time period you are even measuring?) which means that SMN has more actions that crit, which means that if BRD is a CRIT based class, SMN should be considered to be one too.

I was going over a 1 minute duration. I was on the way out the door so I didn't estimate how many AA SMN would get, and may have slightly over-estimated BRD's OGCD number. I'll edit the post in a moment with the numbers I used. In the mean time, I'll explain why BRD is currently listed as the only "crit class." It's because we're currently the only class where a major source of our damage just disappears if we aren't getting any crits. The extra potency that a SMN gets from crit pales in comparison to what BRD gets due to River of Blood.

Edit: Here are the numbers I was using.

SMN:
Dot ticks - 20x4=80 (Bio 2, Miasma, Bio, Shadow Flare)
Pet AA - 19 (Contagion takes one spot)
Spell casts - 17 (2 Bio 2 casts, 2 Shadow Flare casts, and 3 Bio casts that can't crit, subtracted from 24)
Forgot to include Fester - 3
Also forgot AA - 15 (3.2 delay on Allagan book makes 19, minus time spent casting Bio 2 x2, Miasma x2, and Shadow Flare x1.)
Total: 80+19+17+3=119, 134 with AA

BRD:
Dot ticks - 20x2=40 (Windbite and Venomous Bite)
Flaming Arrow - 10
GCD attacks - 24
OGCD attacks - 15 (8 guaranteed from Bloodletter, Repelling Shot, and Blunt Arrow. 7 RoB procs over 1 minute is easily doable with normal RNG.)
AA - 25 (3.2 delay on Allag bow makes 19, plus about 6 from Barrage.)
Total: 40+10+24+15+25=114

The difference, here, is that 7 of those attacks (1,050 potency worth) would never have happened without crit. It would take SMN a hell of a lot of crit to get enough spell speed buff uptime to get 7 more attacks a minute.