t2 got ninja nerfed?

[Crysten]

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Here's a simple way to look at it:

- Does every single person play this game for the challenge?
- Does every single player that uses the enrage method suck at the game entirely?
- Does every single player see the triumph of T5 the pinnacle?

If your answer to any of these questions is "yes" - then congratulations - you win nothing as all you've done is describe your own personal game philosophy.

Everyone plays the game for their own personal goals, whether it be to get to 50, beat the story, get a relic, or even be the first in the world to be cutting edge endgame content. I have no interest in beating T5 before the nerf in March because my philosophy in the game right now is to play with my friends and have fun. I'm perfectly content being a step behind everyone else and clearing content at a slower pace if it means I'm having more fun at the end of it all.

If you want to lord that fact over me and generally get yourself angry over it, go nuts. I couldn't care less what you think.

[Black_Rose]

31 pages of people hating on each other.the ones that like to do it the easy way and the ones that hate everything that makes others happy.
get over your big egos and go play the game the way you want to play it.if you can't deal with people clearing content a different way than yours, go play an offline game.
as if we all didn't take the easy route once in our life.like building a full alliance of black mages and nuking those ark angels to dust.
eventually content will be cleared by everyone anyways.be it now or in a year when the whole "challenge" is out of it.because that's what will happen.look at FFXI.you can solo promyvion.SOLO

[Hitome]

If you want to lord that fact over me and generally get yourself angry over it, go nuts. I couldn't care less what you think.

I never get why people say such things yet follow/reply to threads like these. lol It's a contradiction.

Stuff

Why would you step into coil if not to test your mettle? That's what's so perplexing about this case. You have people in the current endgame dungeon who have to fight a giant snake that splits in two with some interesting mechanics before proceeding to the next phase. After this, you would expect a slightly more difficult challenge in the next turn, yes? But what you are greeted with is a fight that is about as difficult as Tonberry King in WP using a particular method.

What appeal is there in this? It's mixed signals. You want a challenge (or some loot or some fun with friends) so you step into coil. You get that challenge in T1 and then decide you don't want the challenge in T2?

It's like you're delaying the inevitable. So you want to have fun with friends but your friends don't think learning a fight/wiping for a few hours is fun. So, you use a popular strategy to bypass that. You breeze through turn 3 and get to turn 4. You realize that you might need to look some information up beforehand/coordinate some stuff so you may have to wipe for a few hours/learn the fight here. Some people are OK with wiping/learning on turn 4 but not on turn 2? Let's say you are geniuses and don't require much work on turn 4 so you proceed to turn 5. In turn 5, you're presented with a problem though...one you've been avoiding all this time. You now need to sit down and formulate strategies/wipe for hours on end till you actually learn it.

It's also much worse when you think about it from a person's perspective when PUGing coil. Would you want the bar to be set at the hardest content when people have to absolutely start communicating or on an easier fight earlier on? I'd rather people get a wake up call earlier on. That way, overall PUG groups are more prepared to handle things later on.

Anyways, those are just my thoughts and why it is such an interesting issue in my mind. If you could take the time out of your busy day of not caring, would you mind enlightening me?

as if we all didn't take the easy route once in our life.like building a full alliance of black mages and nuking those ark angels to dust.

I'm so glad you brought this memory back to me. You see, back in early (Jan/Feb) 2004 when nuking !@#$ with 14-16 BLMs wasn't a thing, I attempted DM with my sky LS. It took us a while to learn it but was so incredibly fun because of all the neat mechanics that had been designed into the fight and all the coordination that was required to pull off a successful run.

http://i.imgur.com/VLoNRJe.png

Boy that was a long time ago.

When I started nuking it with my BLM LS when we sold runs, I never got the appeal.

People will always take the easier route but the easier route isn't necessarily the most rewarding.

I understand that people want to speed things up and not waste time yet people defending this strategy generally don't use those arguments when asked why they do it. Most of them have a hard time admitting that this strategy is easier, actually. :X You know, like this:

Both methods of clearing require good communication between members. Well guess what, I don't need to learn how to communicate in a raid in T2.

Just a sad state of affairs I guess. Nothing to do with elitism or ego.

[Arkghyom]

So much drama!

[Zumi]

Typically in games when a boss enrages it makes the fight harder not easier. I think the T2 enrage wasn't designed for people to wait 5-6 extra min just so they can fight the boss while under enrage. Something should be fixed. It was an oversight when they made the boss that people would actually do this.

If its going to be a soft enrage ADS should still should do all its mechanics even while enraged on top of the pulse damage. There is a soft enrage on T4 as well if you take too long, however if you get to the soft T4 enrage it is pulse damage the enemies you still have left up do all their normal mechanics and moves still.

If its going to be a hard enrage it should just blow up and kill everyone with 99999 damage.

[Psychosamm]

Stuff

Ever stop to think maybe people don't care if they do things the easy way? That people just do coil for the lewtz and not to show everyone else how awesome they are? Why do you care how other people play? Play how you want and leave others alone. When it comes to playing with other people, then just play with those that agree with you instead of being condescending to others.

[Fayto]

Typically in games when a boss enrages it makes the fight harder not easier. I think the T2 enrage wasn't designed for people to wait 5-6 extra min just so they can fight the boss while under enrage. Something should be fixed. It was an oversight when they made the boss that people would actually do this.

If its going to be a soft enrage ADS should still should do all its mechanics even while enraged on top of the pulse damage. There is a soft enrage on T4 as well if you take too long, however if you get to the soft T4 enrage it is pulse damage the enemies you still have left up do all their normal mechanics and moves still.

If its going to be a hard enrage it should just blow up and kill everyone with 99999 damage.

I want people to do enrage with darklight and other gear that people had back when it was first done because honestly I think it's just our gear is better which allows us to survive. Prove me wrong and my opinion will change.

[Casper]

What i don't get is why they did not think about this and have a simple mechanic: each wave does 5% more damage than the next. I thought it to be assumed that a soft enrage is something that is ramping up to an inevitable death -- Basically, for me, it is something that is supposed to be manageable right away, and basically giving a warning : "time to finish this now, chop chop !" And increasingly it becomes harder. Compared to a hard enrage, which is just a "you fail, game over" screen. I quite like this idea of a soft enrage. However, if the soft enrage not only is not ramping up, is manageable for several minutes, AND remove all other abilities, i question the definition of what the dev are calling an "enrage". This is beside the point of wether people should be able to go through it more easily btw. Just, from a game design perspective : What the hell ?

[Zezlar]

I want people to do enrage with darklight and other gear that people had back when it was first done because honestly I think it's just our gear is better which allows us to survive. Prove me wrong and my opinion will change.

It takes more skill to do t2 normally in Darklight than to over ilvl it and face a boss that uses no abilities.

[Hitome]

Ever stop to think maybe people don't care if they do things the easy way? That people just do coil for the lewtz and not to show everyone else how awesome they are? Why do you care how other people play? Play how you want and leave others alone. When it comes to playing with other people, then just play with those that agree with you instead of being condescending to others.

Hm in order to understand why I care, you would need to have read the past few pages. I'll be uncondescending, though, and summarize for you:

●I would like people to experience that gratifying feeling after successfully overcoming a tough challenge
●I do not want developers to get the wrong idea, thinking this is how we want fights designed...though I do think encouraging multiple ways to do a fight is the way to go

Since I do not do turn 2 outside of my two statics, I am not able to do anything but leave others alone. Even when my MNK first hit 50, I didn't mind when the PUG group I joined wanted to use the enrage strategy. After watching them in turn 1, I wasn't confident they would be able to do the other two strategies so I was OK with them using one that they knew.

I would really like to DF this come 2.2 but don't think it's very feasible, unfortunately.