Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

[givemeraptors]

Frankly, I would consider the OPs argument more valid if people in this game actually took the time to help new or inexperienced players improve. So many people using the duty roulette treat it like a loot pinata and harass the newbies. I've just started gearing/using my PLD in high level dungeons and the amount of flack I take is ridiculous. I never had to deal with such rude people as a DPS, even when I made obvious DPS mistakes like eating too many AOEs and straining the healer.

Today I spent over an hour coaching and being coached (as a first time tanker) through Pharos Sirius. Did we clear it? No. But by the time we abandoned the duty both me and another DPS were much improved at our respective jobs. Before you start talking about 'mediocre' players leeching off of the work of pros, take a look at how you play the game and whether you're contributing to other's experience or simply harassing them and making everything worse. If you're not going to take the time to help others improve, you have no standing to criticize bad players. It's one thing if you're attempting to be helpful and people shut you down. However, the majority of the time if you mention something politely players will respond in kind.

[Lyrro]

Today I spent over an hour coaching and being coached (as a first time tanker) through Pharos Sirius. Did we clear it? No. But by the time we abandoned the duty both me and another DPS were much improved at our respective jobs. Before you start talking about 'mediocre' players leeching off of the work of pros, take a look at how you play the game and whether you're contributing to other's experience or simply harassing them and making everything worse. If you're not going to take the time to help others improve, you have no standing to criticize bad players. It's one thing if you're attempting to be helpful and people shut you down. However, the majority of the time if you mention something politely players will respond in kind.

Had a couple guys last night ragequit during Garuda ex rather than admit they didn't know what they were doing. We asked at the beginning of the fight if everyone knew the fight, not impolitely, we offered to instruct if anyone didn't, and when noone responded we obviously assumed everyone knew it and when we did the readiness check everyone said they were ready. We wiped it before the sisters spawned for the first time because our healer got 1hko-ed by garuda at her first attack. Okay, mistakes happen, right. Second attempt, we made it past that part and wiped at the sisters phase because the tank didn't grab suprana who decided she didnt' like our healers. Again, mistakes happen, right? We try again, we make it all the way to the first vortex phase and someone immediately kills spiny. It's pretty obvious at this point that some of our guys are new, so we ask again and offer to instruct anyone who's new, noone responds. We figure we'll give it one more shot and we wipe before the first sisters phase again.

I understand where you're coming from with your argument, and I agree with it for the most part, I just want to point out that player improvement requires effort on both parts. Players who "wing it" and get the party wiped over and over because they refuse to admit they don't know what they're doing, even when people are offering to teach them, are a big reason that people these days are so hostile toward new people. Sad to say, the story I've told isn't an uncommon occurrence, and I've seen a lot of parties wipe at easy spots because someone did not want to admit that they didn't know the fight or they watched a youtube video once and think they're a pro.

Being a healer, I've seen a lot of hate, especially back in my AK days when people would rage at me because I refused to use the tree method against the first boss or because the tank would die while doing a WP speedrun even though he was soul binding crafting gear while trying to do a speedrun. People are going to hate on people, it's a sad but true, but the people who would wipe a party rather than ask for advice are just as bad as the people who would rage on a new guy for not knowing his role. I guess I'm the odd man out though, just for the fact that I hate seeing my party members die just because someone didn't want to risk bruising their ego by asking for advice.

[Staris]

Today I spent over an hour coaching and being coached (as a first time tanker) through Pharos Sirius. Did we clear it? No.

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

[givemeraptors]

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

It's easy if you know what you're doing, or at least 3/4ths of the people do. And in this specific case I had the time so I decided I may as well make the effort to learn and teach so that the next time someone rolls into Pharos they don't insta-quit or drag their party down (which will ultimately cost more time than my measly lost hour).

[Hiroradius]

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

And this is why peope can't beat the new dungeons. This is not a statement ment at you directly, but SE has given us the same exact incentive to run WP which they know people do these 10 minute speed runs as doing Pharos, yet Pharos people need to be on their game, WP has become so easy that you can fool around, and troll each other and still get it done in 15 minutes.


Then they come up with new gear, yet the new gear drops from all the dungeons, WP, AK, hard modes, etc instead of exclusive Pharos or Copperbell, so in the end people don't have the incentive to try and work with a weaker skilled group, and instead CAUSE the mass replacement of Pharos that seems to happen often.. I wonder if there are groups who complete Pharos that an original party member is still there.

I go into Pharos and plan on teaching it every single time. I have quick but clear instructions for each fight, doesn't get technical, just...

1st boss, kill dogs ASAP, dogs are more important than boss, don't stand in bad stuff. bad stuff on ground get's larger, you will see.
2nd boss, I'll take care of eggs, you dps boss, when an add does spawn, focus on add. We need some adds to spawn to not wipe.
3rd boss, burn burn burn, healer you will need to kite or take one for the team.
4th boss, kill adds, they sargents first then other, boss teleports, if in middle we stack on her, if not in middle avoid middle. Healer keep us full or we could die, tank needs to try and interupt her songs.

Very simple, and I've had groups on first time through, usually 2 shot most of these bosses.

[Kuwagami]

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

It's because people like you that I always do high level DR in tank. Because people like you can't take a minute to help new players to clear that place, and leave asap. Thanksfully, it takes under 5 minutes to get a team ready when I'm a tank, and then we're good to go, and clear it under 45 minutes even with 3/4 new players. Because they CAN clear it. You just never let them try. I've seen much more iL90 players with allagan gear fail horribly there than new players in DL or under