Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

[Ishmachiah]

Love the irony of that statement, given your signature. Both heretic and unclean are words often used by self righteous religious figures to discriminate against people who are of other religions or non religious, and the word mutant is often used negatively even though mutations are often natural and progressive for evolution. I dunno, maybe I just needed a good laugh today given the night I had last night, but this struck me as hilarious.

Glad you liked it.

People will quote WoW, you might as well accept it. WoW is considered one of the Shakespeares of MMOs (holy crap, someone who knows who Shakespeare is), and for better or worse, people will be quoting it for years to come.

I called him out as a hater because he called a game I thoroughly enjoy, an abomination. I don't care what players call provoke or taunt. Just hold enmity.

[Nova_Dresden]

If you remember in Beta, there were 2 topics of chat conversation.

1) Wow, I can't believe this game is so much easier then Final Fantasy 11.

2) This is a WoW clone.

Those were the conversations everyday.

Look at almost any mmo, the popular topic.. "This game reminds me of WoW.."

World of Warcraft redefined MMO's, just like Ultima, and Everquest, and Final Fantasy 11, but none were as profitable as WoW because WoW also went after the casual players and made them feel just as important as the hardcore raiders. Now games are either WoW clones with an added twist to try and seperate themselves from WoW, or just flat out fails.


What developers need to realize is this... It's great to have initial high figures, but usually the casual players who request the housing, and vanity and the haircuts and cry because dungeons are too hard or they can't beat the end game raid, are also the players who don't stick around very long. The hardcore raiders are the one's who usually keep playing the game. When a casual hits a point that is too hard, they quit the game, and come back in the next patch because what they hit that was too hard, they expect to be nerf'd.

Failures of FF14 that will make this game become an Aion, LOTRO, Rift, or similiar very soon.

1) Leveling was too easy and too fast. (Even now that's a huge complaint in WoW, you level your alts too fast)
2) Not enough end game content.
3) Nothing to strive for in game (everything is handed to you, and when something isn't handed people cry on the forums and then they hand it to you)
4) No reason for alts (why create an alt when one character can do everything)
5) Crafting system (since everyone can do everything, it takes away from the supply and demand aspect of the economy, if someone sees high potions are selling for 1k each, eveyrone switches to their alchemist and floods the market bringing them down to 5 gil each)
6) Fates... (Fates are suppose to be something you do to keep you interested in the game, not a focus point. Look at Rift, their fates are something that is a focus but not something you can do just that and nothing else.)

Final Fantasy 14 will most likely follow Aion, Rift, etc and become free to play, cash shop but since we know the japanense do not like this concept, it may not and instead just close down.

On the contrary the hardcore are usually the first to leave when they've finished their content. They tend to be considerably more picky about their content. Casuals typically stay around much, much longer but their cut-off point is when the game isn't fun anymore. That being said Casuals do live their online lives in a pro/con point where they will quit when the cost of the game specifically outweighs the fun they're having. As long as they're still having fun they will continue to pay for the account and stay around. Remove the fun, remove the player. Subscription MMOs can't survive on the 2% of the group that is actually hardcore and not the middle-of-the-pack players that assume they're hardcore because they got world #128 Twintania kill months after release. You need the casuals to keep paying for the game to get new content, so stop biting the hand that feeds you because you're a douche.

Also this is the second incarnation of this game. They already grabbed a bunch of subscribers and tanked the game in 2 months. They then rebuilt it to where it is now because that strategy isn't what they're after. They also stated well before 2.0 started that they had no interest in a free-to-play model.

As for your list of failures
1) Leveling shouldn't feel like a chore, which after your first or second class hitting 50 and running out of quests it definitely felt like a chore. It has a decent pace now.
2) This is a complaint on EVERY MMO, FFXIV is no different. Was just coil enough? No, which is why Crystal Tower was supposed to be ready at launch but was held up. New content should be out in the next month, and I'm of a mind that 6 months between content is acceptable. Any player that assumes an MMO is like a console game where once they hit 50 that EVERYTHING the game will ever have is available is just plain idiotic.
3) My Paladin is ilvl 88, my Warrior is (I think) 85, and my newly 50 Monk is 75. I worked my ass off for that and nothing was handed to me. The closest I may have to getting something handed to me was my Bravura where a LS on my server was giving away free Titan clears for Xmas, but even then I still pulled my weight to the best of my ability. I may not have been clearing coil the second week after release, but I still put in plenty of time and effort into my gear on my classes. Single-path gear progression is what gets a lot of games into trouble lately. "You need X to get Y to get Z" may have been acceptable in the past, but it's no longer acceptable on any MMO.
4) Alts are a personal preference, not something a game should ever require. You leveled alts on most games because you were bored. If you're too hung up about switching classes on one character instead of making a new one then that issue is all on you. I much prefer having just the one toon. Makes leveling alt classes easier with gear I collected in previous dungeons.
5) What you described is exactly how supply and demand is supposed to work. If there is a demand and you can supply it, then have at it. if the supply outweighs the demand then prices drop. Prices drop people stop making them and the supply dwindles but the demand doesn't. Prices go back up, rinse and repeat. The big issue is that demand is finite and in some cases zero. Any crafter on any server who actually believed that 2-star gear or anything using philo mats was going to be an endless money maker was deluded, naive, and completely misguided. You can't make a player want inferior gear, so the prices tanked but crafters still kept flooding the AH with HQ 2-star gear until it just stopped selling. Economies are fickle things, and I think the real danger to them are AH barons who play solely to make money cornering the market board and controlling prices.
6) FATEs are in the game, it's a sytem that's just not viable to ignore. It gets done what needs to be done and probably requires less memory. Add in that it's a stable source of experience once quests run out and you're waiting out a dungeon queue. Free money and seals doesn't hurt either.

[robertoten]

I would like to share a scenario that happened to me on Titan HM,

My character was a Level 50 Paladin,Was acting DPS for my relic, Probably one notch undergeared, I watched video probably 5 times,
Wiped in P/U groups many times, and through the kindness of someone in my FC they gathered a proper group and we went in...
I made it all the way to the beginning of phase 5 and got taken out, so i'm watching and 30 secs another gets taken out and this happened down to 5 members left, their skill truely showed and I'm very grateful to them(They actually did it!)- so much so that at the very end I felt a little guilty.
It occured to me later that if I would have been resurrected once I would have made it, it also occured to me that I was doing quite well until phase 5, so with all these facts I would like Everyones opinion on this (especially Yenns),-I do plan on going back till I feel I've performed through the whole fight,do I deserve my relic or no?

[Zarzak]

I thoroughly enjoy, an abomination. I don't care what players call provoke or taunt. Just hold enmity.

Enjoy it all you want it still destroyed MMOs and basically turned the false sterotype of gamers in the 90s into truth.

"gamers are all antisocial people who hide inside and never do anything"

pre WoW mmos? Jesus you had to socialize with at least 6-7 people every second you were online.. raids? fk 100+ people.

post WoW? *solos 1-lvl cap then sits in town until random preformed party for instanced dungeon pops and everyone rushes to finish it and get away from the other people in the party*

[Ishmachiah]

Enjoy it all you want it still destroyed MMOs and basically turned the false sterotype of gamers

WoW did not bring out that stereotype, Everquest did. And I hate to bring this up, but even pre-WoW, socialising was optional. You could level from 1-cap without having to speak to anyone in every MMO, Including FFXI.

Beastmaster is a prime example of me not having not only not deal with people like you, I could enjoy the game and walk away with equally spectacular gear.

I am beginning to believe the primary complaint of the people who hate WoW is that they believe that they are god's gift to MMOs and how dare anyone tell them to go to h3ll or ignore them. Does it bruise your ego that I can outright ignore people like you and still have a good time?

[Hiroradius]

You're point is valid, Illuminapanic, but what you seem to fail to understand is that a higher ilvl allows parties to make mistakes that they could not afford at lower levels. Where I once had issues healing people because of them being one-shot, I now have the chance to heal that person because they will often survive with a sliver of health. This allows us to make it further into the fight which, in return, allows us to get more practice for those parts that we couldn't otherwise reach successively enough to practice. Take titan hm for example, back when it was still fresh. People were constantly getting killed by plumes and it was exceedingly rare (still is rather rare) to make it past the heart phase because it was very common to have at least one dps die in the heart phase. Once my fc started running titan, with people who were all adequately geared, we were able to practice post heart combat and we can now four man phase 5. Ilvl has nothing to do with skill, I agree full heartedly, but it does help counter lack of skill by giving a small cusion which can often save a party from a wipe.

Okay I just want to point something out.

You had healing issues because someone was getting one-shotted.. that isn't considered healing issues that is someone not getting out of danger zones in time, unless it was the tank.. and if it's the tank then that is the tank not popping the correct cooldown.

The catch is, now with the higher ilvl they have the gear to survive these mistakes with a sliver of hp left, so now instead you HAVE healing issues because that said person with better gear is still standing in danger zones or tank is not popping correct cooldowns and causing you to have to cover their mistakes. So now by you covering for their mistakes they continue to not learn and continue to make the said mistake, and then when you get to harder content because they haven't learned to avoid the danger properly they make it harder on the rest of the group to near impossible, and cause the rest of the group to have to play perfectly just to cover their inability to avoid danger.

[Hiroradius]

WoW did not bring out that stereotype, Everquest did. And I hate to bring this up, but even pre-WoW, socialising was optional. You could level from 1-cap without having to speak to anyone in every MMO, Including FFXI.

Beastmaster is a prime example of me not having not only not deal with people like you, I could enjoy the game and walk away with equally spectacular gear.


I am beginning to believe the primary complaint of the people who hate WoW is that they believe that they are god's gift to MMOs and how dare anyone tell them to go to h3ll or ignore them. Does it bruise your ego that I can outright ignore people like you and still have a good time?

Okay but now correct me if I'm wrong, but Beastmaster, didn't you have to level 2 jobs(yes you probably could have done it with one, but most people would not invite you into their leveling parties unless you had the proper subjob leveled) that you had to around level 13 or 14 group with people and interact with people to continue leveling before you had the ability to use beastmaster? AND to get past level 50, didn't you have to find people to help you do the genkai quests, say with 55, 60, etc..

If you take out the people part of an mmo, then your just playing Final Fantasy 12

[Alcyon1]

I am beginning to believe the primary complaint of the people who hate WoW is that they believe that they are god's gift to MMOs and how dare anyone tell them to go to h3ll or ignore them. Does it bruise your ego that I can outright ignore people like you and still have a good time?

I don't like WOW because WOW killed the genre. Now, you cannot "fail" your char (in some games, you had to put your stats yourself without any possible reset, same goes for your skill tree), levelling was mostly grinding, but you had to build a decent char and do it with a group. Now, a "raid" is X people. Not X-1 or X+1, but X. In some games, crafting was a REAL job, and levelling it was hard (or expensive) but rewarding. Geez. I could continue for a week. I don't dislike the "new" MMO's, I just dislike Blizzard for killing a genre.

[Alcyon1]

For the OP, please uninstall. Please do it, I'm tired to have this kind of players. I don't mind to wipes 50 times, I REALLY apologize when I fail but if some people are just wanting to play, let them play. Do you do any sport ? Are you really trying to become a pro and train a few hours every day ? You probably don't, then don't ask to some players to "improve". Just ignore them, play with your friends.

About stuff, I usualy check the stuff. And we created linkshells to complete groups. OMG, LINKSHELLS ARE NOT USELESS !!!!!

[Lyrro]

I don't like WOW because WOW killed the genre. Now, you cannot "fail" your char (in some games, you had to put your stats yourself without any possible reset, same goes for your skill tree), levelling was mostly grinding, but you had to build a decent char and do it with a group. Now, a "raid" is X people. Not X-1 or X+1, but X. In some games, crafting was a REAL job, and levelling it was hard (or expensive) but rewarding. Geez. I could continue for a week. I don't dislike the "new" MMO's, I just dislike Blizzard for killing a genre.

You've basically just argued the OP's point and then told him you were tired of people like him and asked him to stop playing. If you're going to post, at least do so in a manor that supports your own argument. In FFXIV you are allowed to make mistakes as often as you want, you don't need to build a decent char because as it stands, options for gear buffs are so limited that the only possible way your character could turn out badly is if you suck, because in the end you can always just turn around and reset your points and practice. The problem is, the only remotely challenging thing left in this game is t5 which is about to be nerfed anyways with 2.2. Even the worst of players can finish 99% of the game's content as long as they're able to spam 1,2,3 in that order and so many pugs can't even pull that off.

Sports require much more intense training than anything in this game, so that comparison falls flat simply for the fact that sports can take years to master while most of the content in this game can be mastered in minutes-an hour. That said, why should it be that the answer to people not wanting to take that few minutes be to nerf the game to the point that most of it can be played (and I've done it) without even looking at your screen? Rather than encouraging players to get better at the game, SE has taken a strong standing toward catering to players who don't want to try, which will inevitably lead to a game that is rated T but can be easily beaten by a five year old.

Your argument about always playing with friends falls flat simply for the fact that pugs exist. If people always had friends online to play with and who wanted to do all of the same things at the same time then there would be no need for duty finder or party finder.