Skill based fights..

[Warlyx]

Well, let's be frank. In FF11 the game was all about memorizing as well. Heck any boss is when it comes down to it. DM you had a kill order. Sky gods had attack rotations and 2hrs. Nyzul isle had specific room types. Jailers had specific tactics per jailer. Salvage you had to know who to unlock skills/stats for first and the path of gear to take. Now I liked FF11 for what it was, and I want a variety of fights and bosses to take down in dungeons, and open world as well! So Not trying really hate.

FFXI boss attacks were random , u couldnt predict the next move , thats why we had Stun rotations , and kiting in some encounters , aoes on FFXI killed whole alliances (stonega IV >>>>> BOOOM!) , and thats why /nin become a popular sub for melee DD jobs (and even ranged)

FFXIV u know whats going to happen Next and after that skill boss is doing X and Y Z /loop , boring as hell

Jobs were used for more than just X , summoner kiting/tanking with carby , tank died ?!!! np thf got it 2h (perfect dodge!!!) ,even flee kite ,CC was important in some zones, debuffs werent useless (paralyze , slow , dia , blind ect)

doing bcnms as 2-3 beastmaster any1?

killling Primals solo as SMN ?

plenty of challenging encounters , hell nothing has been as hard as beating RDM maat as first job ! , !"$!$ U OLD MAN! ò_ó

[Mardel]

FFXI boss attacks were random , u couldnt predict the next move , thats why we had Stun rotations , and kiting in some encounters , aoes on FFXI killed whole alliances (stonega IV >>>>> BOOOM!) , and thats why /nin become a popular sub for melee DD jobs (and even ranged)

FFXIV u know whats going to happen Next and after that skill boss is doing X and Y Z /loop , boring as hell

Those may have been "random" but they out of a pool of specific skills though, thus the randomness could narrowed down. FF14 just doesn't have the sheer amount of abilities to compensate for a "random" attack based boss. Certain mechanics in this game would just make fights sheer RNG.

Also ff11 could afford to make fights in sky/sea a bit less scripted because of alliances having people on the sidelines. Thus eliminating a lot of the threat from someone dying.

[Yashnaheen]

Richiealvian think of it more like this- Where your focus is.

ARR you focus on movement to avoid AOEs and occasionally consider phases. The focus is immediate and is on movement or anti 1 shot CDs.

There are other games, not just XI, where you focus on controlling the encounter. The focus is ahead (this causes that so then I'll have to do this which has various affects on the party, so should I?). You consider doing things that aren't the most efficient way as the party becomes more durable. For a cross game example keeping stoneskin up or regen ticking on the OT where threat allows.

For a playstyle example- I've partied with plenty of T5 clearing WHMs that don't use stoneskin as math says it will use more MP than just curing them as damage is taken. They are great healers. Even still I will keep it up on someone who doesn't dodge well. There are no battles where I have MP issues healing, but I am always limited by how much I can do at any one time by the GCD. When I have spare time, that stoneskin is saving a spare GCD for later instead of letting it tick by while making the party more durable no matter what happens going forward. This is more a force of habit than a game changer in ARR. But hopefully that explains the point.

[Mardel]

Richiealvian think of it more like this- Where your focus is.

ARR you focus on movement to avoid AOEs and occasionally consider phases. The focus is immediate and is on movement or anti 1 shot CDs.

There are other games, not just XI, where you focus on controlling the encounter. The focus is ahead (this causes that so then I'll have to do this which has various affects on the party, so should I?). You consider doing things that aren't the most efficient way as the party becomes more durable. For a cross game example keeping stoneskin up or regen ticking on the OT where threat allows. For a playstyle example- I've partied with plenty of T5 clearing WHMs that don't use stoneskin as math says it will use more MP than just curing them as damage is taken. They are great healers. Even still I will keep it up on someone who doesn't dodge well. There are no battles where I have MP issues healing, but I am always limited by how much I can do at any one time by the GCD. When I have spare time, that stoneskin is saving a spare GCD for later instead of letting it tick by while making the party more durable no matter what happens going forward. This is more a force of habit than a game changer in ARR. But hopefully that explains the point.

This, is very true. I think we could have a shift in game play style/skill if we had a larger pool of abilities to draw from. Possibly more people to bring into a battle would do that as well.

[Miiu]

Divine might
Kings
Sky Gods
COP wyrms
NMS/BCNMS
Dynamis

etc

so many different types of fights rather than the same ol mechanics that FFXIV uses.

Most of the stuff you listed wasn't in the game at the NA release. That was my whole point. Sure bcnms were there but those were not really differen mostly stun mechanics or sleep tactics.

[TrystWildkey]

Good points Tryst.

I really think the differences in the playerbase here isn't so much one is right and one is wrong, or that there is no counter argument to a type of playstyle. It's that there are 2 general types who play MMORPGs.

1. Those who love RPGs. The progression, story, lore, struggles and glory. The MMO part includes others which (depending on the company you keep) make it even better. Modern offerings tend to destroy your progression or reason to progress in general. These types will probably enjoy an evening with a few others and a tabletop RPG.

2. Those who enjoy the game time and consistency an MMO offers, and the social aspect. Not so much the RPG part. I don't understand this group as well so I won't try to go in to detail I don't understand well. But they would enjoy twitch games more than an RPG, like in Zumi's example- classic arcade style side scrollers.

FFXIV: ARR happens to be a Type 2 game, even though the franchise's previous 12 games were Type 1.

quoting because some new posters seem to have missed this one.

Personally, I'm not enjoying the game because I don't like the action play-style, and the rpg facets of the game just aren't there for me. It's not a lack of content in general, it's a lack of the TYPE of content I enjoy.

[Dazd]

Most of the stuff you listed wasn't in the game at the NA release. That was my whole point. Sure bcnms were there but those were not really differen mostly stun mechanics or sleep tactics.

All of the things he listed were in at NA launch except for CoP wyrms.

[Iecerint]

They weren't in the game at JP release, though. He's talking about RoZ content mostly, with some CoP.

[Miiu]

All of the things he listed were in at NA launch except for CoP wyrms.

Okay maybe my memory is more fuzzy than I thought. I only remember dynamis and bcnms being there. In terms of group battles.
If I'm wrong than I apologize.

[Haprimac]

Sincere question: Are all MMORPG's more action oriented than strategy? Are there any with a slightly slower pace to combat that might appeal to me? (please don't tell me to go back to XI, it's doing the vertical progression, item level crap now too and I don't like that)

The only other mmo I've played before FFXIV was Lord of the Rings Online. It was much much more slow phased and more about planning and teamwork than "avoid this and that aoe". I had massive lag back when I played it because of a very old PC, but I managed to go through raids as a healer (while facing the wall so I'd have as little happening on my screen as possible ).

I have many fond memories of the game for the 2-3 years that I played it. I would recommend it, if it weren't for the fact it went F2P and how that pretty much destroyed it. :S The classes aren't as fun and free as they used to be. They're now forced into stupid skill trees where you have to choose what you specialize as. The beauty of the game was how you could do multiple roles on one class depending on situation. Another thing that annoys me is that it's like the creators of the game don't care about it anymore and don't fix annoying bugs. And everything has to be bought from the LotRO frigging Store. </rant>