Does tanking carry more responsibility than most?

[Ehayte]

My opinions:

Job skill requirements to be adequate (highest to lowest)
MNK > SCH > DRG > WHM > WAR > SMN > BRD > BLM > PLD

Job responsibility in a normal setting (highest to lowest)
PLD/WAR > WHM/SCH > MNK/BRD > SMN/BLM > DRG

Job skill required to be exceptional (highest to lowest)
MNK > PLD > SCH > WAR > WHM > DRG > BRD > DRG > BLM

Generally, the lower skill it takes to be adequate, the higher your responsibilities are in an average setting. Subsequently, the more responsibility you have, the harder it is to become an exceptional player, due to skill balance and resource management. With the exception of BLM which I think is faceroll easy to play and doesn't end up with a lot of responsibility in most cases through at least T4.

Again, my personal opinion - I have played every class but BRD @ 50 across my two characters.

[Instrumentality]

Tank and healer screw ups are amplified by people dying. DPS screw ups are demonstrated by the boss not dying. Alert party members should notice deficiencies in everyone's playstyles (including their own), and work together with other group members to improve and progress through content.

People that get angry over people making mistakes should quit getting mad at video games.

[OmegaSinX]

I would love to learn how to tank....but i'm afraid of all the jerks out there in Duty finder.

Im not sure why so many people are scared to tank. Its pretty easy.

Some fights require research but for 95% of content; your job stays the same. No matter if your are alone or with 20 people.

1. Hold Aggro
2. Rotate CD's at right time.

[AlrikRouge]

My first post here, and I have been a tank in this game since beta.

I don't personally find tanking to be 'easy' by all means, but.....

I ran across this post on reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...tank_shortage/

And there are spots in here that sort of make me question if tanking is really as hard as everyone makes it out to be.

For example, a few people are under the opinion that tanking is the 'easiest', and carries the least amount of responsibility in the group. That currently, tanks have been unfairly given the of responsibility 'unfairly'. But even then, its still not as 'difficult' as DPS jobs.

What do you think? Do you think being a tank role has a lot more 'perceived' pressure on it than actually exists? Or is it really that difficult?

IMO, every role is "easy" as soon as you know all the bits and pieces involved in it. Once you know the rotations, you get the most out of your DPS and enmity generation. Once you know the mechanics of a fight or the pulls of a dungeon and what to expect, healing, DPS and tanking are all easy. But that's because the person doing it knows what they are doing, how to do it, and when. And it becomes even easier when they know what NOT to do and when NOT to do something.

In my point of view, all DPS roles (not actions, such as tank or healer attacking) are the kill-support positions. Without them, most bosses are impossible to kill due to the mechanics of the fights, although with properly geared healers, you could even take out Titan HM (there are videos on that). Not sure about the Ex primals, but I'm sure there are those out there already trying it. While the dungeons themselves could be done, everything takes longer to get done.

As far as responsibility for the party, IMO both the tank and the healer have equal amounts: if the tank doesn't hold aggro, everyone can get hit or killed. If the healer doesn't heal everyone including the tank, everyone can die. If the tank holds all aggro, everyone can do their jobs. If the healer keeps everyone healed, they can do their jobs. I have yet to see a dungeon or raid done without at least one healer and one tank in the party. And I don't mean finishing a dungeon or boss when the tank and/or healer die. (Though, when I think about it, you could probably pull it off on a CM run)

But what people are usually held responsible for is also important - a tank is held responsible for moving everyone through the dungeon as fast or as slow as everyone likes or wants it to be done. They are also held responsible for keeping attacks on everyone else in the party to a minimum (the minimum being mechanics - for example: boss randomly casts magic against a random member, or adds are not expected to be gotten like in AK on the first boss or just ignoring them on the second boss).

And a healer is also held responsible for helping on DPS should the tank be highly experienced and not at all squishy.

To sum it all up, again in my humble opinion, I think both healer and tank are held responsible for most aspects and the flow of things. Bad tank or bad healer, usually things fall apart. Having both at the same time, it never succeeds. Bad or slow DPS, you could still potentially pull things off. Note I said bad or slow, not "no DPS".

But because the tank is held responsible for the flow and movement of everything in addition to their basic function of holding enmity, I think they have slightly more responsibility then the rest. Not by much, but by a small margin above a healer.

Note well - none of the above is really in discussion of skill and expertise involved in using a character. I myself have no immediate intention of learning the rotations and skills necessary to be a perfect MNK or DRG, or how to set things up perfectly as a SCH to single handedly heal Titan Ex or Coil. The above is all about my views on who is more responsible for and who is held more responsible for what in a party.

[Mailstrum]

We can solo heal t1-t5? That's frigging amazing!

well turn 1-4 we have picked up an extra dps and solo healed these turns before. also turn 2 is so easy now with this enrage strat. a well gear'ed healer can solo heal it with 2 extra dps.. 1 tank 1 heals goes dps. We 1 tank 1 heal this turn all the time.

[Aureliami]

well turn 1-4 we have picked up an extra dps and solo healed these turns before. also turn 2 is so easy now with this enrage strat. a well gear'ed healer can solo heal it with 2 extra dps.. 1 tank 1 heals goes dps. We 1 tank 1 heal this turn all the time.

Yeah coil 1-4 is easily solo healable.

The only reason turn 5 is very hard to solo heal(but not impossible) is RNG. You need a 2nd healer for when the healer gets put in conflag or prison by dreadknight. So the 2nd healer only really needs to spam some heals for 5% of the fight and the other 95% not do anything...
.. and you can still beat turn 5. But that 5% of the time when you need a 2nd healer will probably cause a wipe if you try to attempt it with 1 healer, sadly.

[Traek]

Eh, I love my tank and there is certainly responsibility involved, but I don't think it needs to be an epeen thing between classes. In reality I like to do things on other classes cause I'm more inclined to *zone out* while playing. You can react to things like plumes and stomps etc. while pew pewing with your rotations. I feel as though tanking you must be a lot more active to keep the flow going, pre planning CDs, dodging the extra Melee mechanics, picking up adds (pre planned BB/Halone), and tank swapping. Its just all very engaging. This is much of what I enjoy about tanking, but doing things on it outside my static causes me to enjoy the game less as I try to rely on randos playing well, and my efforts are being wasted.

I'm sure the anxiety of "leading" the party is what keeps some people from tanking, but I'm not so sure responsibility is the culprit. Responsibility can be argued for all the classes, and mistakes recognized in all classes. I can tell very quickly when a healer isn't up to snuff in things like Titan EX, even on my DD. Healers will instantly know when DD isn't up to snuff, as their mana bar drains from unnecessary heals and raises. Pretty obvious bad DDs when mechanics aren't being downed in time, close to enrage time, or if you are parsing them. Its a team effort on a majority of fights and the "responsibility" conversation in the General Forums thread really just came down to epeening IMO.

[PiedPiper]

My opinions:

Job skill requirements to be adequate (highest to lowest)
MNK > SCH > DRG > WHM > WAR > SMN > BRD > BLM > PLD

Job responsibility in a normal setting (highest to lowest)
PLD/WAR > WHM/SCH > MNK/BRD > SMN/BLM > DRG

Job skill required to be exceptional (highest to lowest)
MNK > PLD > SCH > WAR > WHM > DRG > BRD > DRG > BLM

I agree with this pretty much. To be adequate, particularly at paladin, you only need to spam your combo and not get hit by landslides. Warrior requires you to semi-intelligently use inner beast since they are still so squishy.


That said, many in this thread have underestimated the maximum potential of tanking classes. Ehayte is right in saying that the most skill to maximize the class is in pld and war, and when you play with people who have maximized those classes, it does have a profound impact.


In all honesty though, most players are awful. At all classes. Most random dps, even at high item levels, do piss poor dps. Numerous party finders for titan ex i've seen the ilvl set to 85+ and then out dps'd one or two of the actual dps as paladin. If I am in the warrior off tank role in that fight, I routinely beat at lest one dps.

We just notice bad tanks and healers more than bad dps, because in most fights there are enough other dps to carry a bad dps. One skilled dps can carry a bad through demon wall, 3 skilled can carry a bad through the primal fights. Even healers often get carried (this is mostly how solo healing started, people realized they could survive even when the other healer was bad and just went with it). Tanks, however, cannot carry each other. Often a healer can carry a bad tank, but even the best tank can do little to carry the other. "Bro, i'm at 5 stacks on ifrit bro, provoke bro" "Huh? But my dps will go down if i put on defiance."

Most players, however, are awful. They have very low actions per minute, don't understand how to use off gcd abilities off the gcd, and linger between gcds without performing actions. On any class, if your APM is low, you will perform poorly.


Experince: PLD & WAR i90, DRG & BRD i83, SCH & WHM i80 Monk iWhoplaysmonk?

[Squa]

I have relatively geared healers,dps and tanks in this game. I will basically only do Roulette on my TANK, since I will be guaranteed a win most likely. On my healer DPS, even with similar gear, I will certainly not be guaranteed a win and run into a lot of drama in these positions, and groups falling apart, etc... I normally wont queue on anything but a tank (since I can basically do a DPS role, and really help healers as well). Tanks are probably the most important role atm in a combination for gear + experience/knowhow

[Altimis]

Job skill required to be exceptional (highest to lowest)
WAR > SCH > SMN > MNK > DRG > PLD > BRD > WHM > BLM

That my opinion