Does tanking carry more responsibility than most?

[Kieren-Dohla]

I agree, but tanking also involves more dealing with party members it seems. They remember how a run was done before and some peeps are inflexible and rude and expect every tank to do everything the same way. As long as an approach works, its just details then.

Problem is there are some really rude pushy ppl in the game, especially ones wanting to hurry through their dailies. They tell me to gogogogo as a tank lol. Other ppl are just mellow and I find playing with cool ppl things actually end up going better on a run.

[givemeraptors]

Not as many commendations as HEALER or TANK by far.

I once got three recommendations on a guildhest as a healer except I tossed out one maybe two cures the entire fight. People see they had mostly full health the entire time and just assume it was me and not their own ability at dodging/negating damage.

Problem is there are some really rude pushy ppl in the game, especially ones wanting to hurry through their dailies. They tell me to gogogogo as a tank lol. Other ppl are just mellow and I find playing with cool ppl things actually end up going better on a run.

I totally agree! As a tank new to high level dungeons I get people who just want to speed through it and I feel the pressure to go faster than I'm comfortable with, which gives me little room to really learn what I'm doing or lead the group effectively. Usually it's fine when I'm backed by three very good players, but ironically the pushier a player is, the worse they seem to be at the game >_>

[Instrumentality]

Tank and healer screw ups are amplified by people dying. DPS screw ups are demonstrated by the boss not dying. Alert party members should notice deficiencies in everyone's playstyles (including their own), and work together with other group members to improve and progress through content.

People that get angry over people making mistakes should quit getting mad at video games.

[AlrikRouge]

My first post here, and I have been a tank in this game since beta.

I don't personally find tanking to be 'easy' by all means, but.....

I ran across this post on reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...tank_shortage/

And there are spots in here that sort of make me question if tanking is really as hard as everyone makes it out to be.

For example, a few people are under the opinion that tanking is the 'easiest', and carries the least amount of responsibility in the group. That currently, tanks have been unfairly given the of responsibility 'unfairly'. But even then, its still not as 'difficult' as DPS jobs.

What do you think? Do you think being a tank role has a lot more 'perceived' pressure on it than actually exists? Or is it really that difficult?

IMO, every role is "easy" as soon as you know all the bits and pieces involved in it. Once you know the rotations, you get the most out of your DPS and enmity generation. Once you know the mechanics of a fight or the pulls of a dungeon and what to expect, healing, DPS and tanking are all easy. But that's because the person doing it knows what they are doing, how to do it, and when. And it becomes even easier when they know what NOT to do and when NOT to do something.

In my point of view, all DPS roles (not actions, such as tank or healer attacking) are the kill-support positions. Without them, most bosses are impossible to kill due to the mechanics of the fights, although with properly geared healers, you could even take out Titan HM (there are videos on that). Not sure about the Ex primals, but I'm sure there are those out there already trying it. While the dungeons themselves could be done, everything takes longer to get done.

As far as responsibility for the party, IMO both the tank and the healer have equal amounts: if the tank doesn't hold aggro, everyone can get hit or killed. If the healer doesn't heal everyone including the tank, everyone can die. If the tank holds all aggro, everyone can do their jobs. If the healer keeps everyone healed, they can do their jobs. I have yet to see a dungeon or raid done without at least one healer and one tank in the party. And I don't mean finishing a dungeon or boss when the tank and/or healer die. (Though, when I think about it, you could probably pull it off on a CM run)

But what people are usually held responsible for is also important - a tank is held responsible for moving everyone through the dungeon as fast or as slow as everyone likes or wants it to be done. They are also held responsible for keeping attacks on everyone else in the party to a minimum (the minimum being mechanics - for example: boss randomly casts magic against a random member, or adds are not expected to be gotten like in AK on the first boss or just ignoring them on the second boss).

And a healer is also held responsible for helping on DPS should the tank be highly experienced and not at all squishy.

To sum it all up, again in my humble opinion, I think both healer and tank are held responsible for most aspects and the flow of things. Bad tank or bad healer, usually things fall apart. Having both at the same time, it never succeeds. Bad or slow DPS, you could still potentially pull things off. Note I said bad or slow, not "no DPS".

But because the tank is held responsible for the flow and movement of everything in addition to their basic function of holding enmity, I think they have slightly more responsibility then the rest. Not by much, but by a small margin above a healer.

Note well - none of the above is really in discussion of skill and expertise involved in using a character. I myself have no immediate intention of learning the rotations and skills necessary to be a perfect MNK or DRG, or how to set things up perfectly as a SCH to single handedly heal Titan Ex or Coil. The above is all about my views on who is more responsible for and who is held more responsible for what in a party.

[Traek]

Eh, I love my tank and there is certainly responsibility involved, but I don't think it needs to be an epeen thing between classes. In reality I like to do things on other classes cause I'm more inclined to *zone out* while playing. You can react to things like plumes and stomps etc. while pew pewing with your rotations. I feel as though tanking you must be a lot more active to keep the flow going, pre planning CDs, dodging the extra Melee mechanics, picking up adds (pre planned BB/Halone), and tank swapping. Its just all very engaging. This is much of what I enjoy about tanking, but doing things on it outside my static causes me to enjoy the game less as I try to rely on randos playing well, and my efforts are being wasted.

I'm sure the anxiety of "leading" the party is what keeps some people from tanking, but I'm not so sure responsibility is the culprit. Responsibility can be argued for all the classes, and mistakes recognized in all classes. I can tell very quickly when a healer isn't up to snuff in things like Titan EX, even on my DD. Healers will instantly know when DD isn't up to snuff, as their mana bar drains from unnecessary heals and raises. Pretty obvious bad DDs when mechanics aren't being downed in time, close to enrage time, or if you are parsing them. Its a team effort on a majority of fights and the "responsibility" conversation in the General Forums thread really just came down to epeening IMO.

[Squa]

I have relatively geared healers,dps and tanks in this game. I will basically only do Roulette on my TANK, since I will be guaranteed a win most likely. On my healer DPS, even with similar gear, I will certainly not be guaranteed a win and run into a lot of drama in these positions, and groups falling apart, etc... I normally wont queue on anything but a tank (since I can basically do a DPS role, and really help healers as well). Tanks are probably the most important role atm in a combination for gear + experience/knowhow

[Bigby]

I just want to clarify something. All 4 man dungeons, CT, HM Primals and Coil Turn 1-2 are boring and easy for EVERY class, not just tank. That leaves extreme primals, and T4-5. I believe all this content is harder for tank then DPS. That said, I have no idea where people are getting the idea that Tank is easy. Easier then healer? Definitely. Easier then DPS? lol.

I wanted to conclude with the primal reason I believe people don't play tank: No Pew Pews.

[Asdamine]

Easier then healer? Definitely. Easier then DPS? lol.

I think healer is easier, but that's just me...

/macroicon "Physick"
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[Tahara]

I think healer is easier, but that's just me...

/macroicon "Physick"
/ac "physick" <t>
/wait 3
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/ac "physick" <t>
/wait 3
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You missed out on 3.5 seconds in between skills compared to what you could have done manually. That's at least 1 extra heal (and that's just on heals on the gcd timer).

Bad healer is bad.

[givemeraptors]

Likevise, assuming we are talking lastboss only good places where to tank him is either middle or next to add spawn location. Middle makes it easier to healer to heal i guess but tanking near add spawn reduces party DMG when you can stun those adds, only done that place 2-3 times so dont really know any nifty tricks in there.

My smoothest runs with the final boss in Copperbell HM is when the tank feeds the worm by leading the boss around the edge of the room. If you go in the right direction (clockwise?) you'll be right next to a few of the adds as they spawn too.

My opinions:

Job skill requirements to be adequate (highest to lowest)
MNK > SCH > DRG > WHM > WAR > SMN > BRD > BLM > PLD

Job responsibility in a normal setting (highest to lowest)
PLD/WAR > WHM/SCH > MNK/BRD > SMN/BLM > DRG

Job skill required to be exceptional (highest to lowest)
MNK > PLD > SCH > WAR > WHM > DRG > BRD > DRG > BLM

Typo?

I actually think that SMN is a harder class to play than you're giving it credit for, especially to be an exceptional one. Because they can Resurrect they can be invaluable if a healer bites it in a 4-man party. In an 8-man party they can keep up DPS by Swiftcast --> Resurrect --> Aetherflow whenever a DPS eats it. This requires you to look at the party bar and focus on mobs which is tough to do. Also, pet management is usually minimal, but for certain fights where you need to move your pet out of DoT AoE effects (burning circles, purple muck, Copperbell HM fire) it can be a real drain to keep track of everything while performing at A+ level. Being an adequate SMN is not terribly difficult. Just keep your DoTs up.