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  1. #121
    Player
    Ooshima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,925
    Character
    Rui Ooshima
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by SquireZed View Post
    The problem is that there are a great deal of tanks that *DON'T* pay attention and don't control the field, and as a result make the rest of us tanks look realllllly bad. The importance of a good tank can be seen in parties where the tank fundamentally fails and everything hits the fan.
    Actually, it's party due to game design on party composition. Example - Titan HM. Does it really need 2 tanks? Nope. If you understood the fight (and of course, decently geared) then it's obvious that there is no tank swap or other mechanics that forces you to use 2 tanks. But if you DF it, you will need 2 tanks. Why? IDK, that's probably for Yoshida to explain. Maybe just in case the MT is a flop and dies, the OT can pick up the boss. It allows you to have 2 ok-ok tanks and swap each other in case one dies, but in actual fact, if you have one good tank it's good enough. In this case, there isn't really a stress on the need to have a good tank.


    But if it's a 4 man dungeon like Pharos Sirus, then yes your tank needs to be at least decent. Why? Because it's a 4 man, Tank-DPS-DPS-Healer composition. If your tank dies, there is no tank at all, and of course a wipe will occur.

    Again, let's look at party compositions again, and back to Titan HM as example. We talked about how it actually can be done with 1 good tank. It can also be done with 1 good WHM, provided that DPS are not eating damage other than tulmults and your tanks aren't dying. But DF forces you to have 2 healers, just in case your DPS/tanks are a flop and dying. Then we look at DPS. 4 of them? Can it be done with 3 DPS? It can be done. I'm not talking about wearing full i90 sets and carrying - back then in 2.0 there are already people selling HM runs in DL gear. There is a video out there showing Titan HM done with 1 tank, 2 DPS and 1 healer (albeit I believe they are overgearred). What does this say? You don't really need 4 DPS for this battle either. If you have 3 good DPS that can squeeze out every DPS he/she can throw out, it's good enough. But the game says 4 DPS just in case some DPS dies or the 4 DPS are just ok-ok only.

    And for the fact that the system is structured in a way that only Tank classes are able to absorb boss's onslaughts, only Healers can heal as required, only DPS classes can deal decent damage, there is no other choice. Tanks responsibilities is to ensure that they know their job and use CDs correctly. DPS's job is to make sure that they don't eat unnecessary damage and be a burden to the team while killing the mobs/boss ASAP (because the longer you drag, the more room for mistakes for everyone). Healer's job is to make sure everyone is topped up. It doesn't mean anyone is above another in responsibility and importance.

    If once day there are changes to this system, such as introducing hybrid classes, then people may think differently. Example, Blue Mages that can cast offensive and healing magics at 80% efficiency of their specialized counterparts, Black/White Mages can do. Maybe a Beastmaster that have abilities of a Warrior class at a lower efficiency/potency but at the same time, have the potency say 80% of a melee DPS class.

    When this happen, even if in a 4 man dungeon, will I care a deal if a PLD/WAR dies? Maybe not as much, the Beastmaster can take over until the healer raise the PLD/WAR. Is it all lost if the sole healer dies? Maybe not, since I have a Blue Mage. But we don't have mixed classes now, so it is important that everyone understands and does their job well to make everyone's life easier.
    (0)
    Last edited by Ooshima; 02-26-2014 at 04:00 PM.

  2. #122
    Player
    givemeraptors's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    481
    Character
    Felendis Vreer
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuixien View Post
    Okay but let's expand upon your logic...

    In a 4 man group... tank is 25% of the party, DPS is 25% of the party, and healer is 25% of the party... but there's 2 people doing DPS... so each DPS is only 12.5%, or half of a person. And sometimes you think they've got 1 brain to split between them, to boot.
    What the heck kind of math are you doing? DPS is 50% of the party...

    Quote Originally Posted by SquireZed View Post
    A bad tank can ruin a party in a way that almost no other role can, while a good tank is a necessity for more difficult missions, even if the tank is simply a DPS performing the duties of the tank in a fight (if in a party with no dedicated tank). For example, if a tank disconnects, a Lancer may take over and keep enmity away from the healers. These roles are vital to keeping the party moving forward.
    Every role can ruin the party in unique ways. When I role tank I KNOW when we're not doing good DPS. I KNOW when the healer isn't doing their job (or even doing it well and DPSing at the same time). That there are people who roll tanks here and claim ignorance of the equal importance all roles play is just terrible. I honestly don't think you're a very good tank if you don't notice these things.

    Not calling you out specifically btw SquireZed, just saying in general.
    (1)

  3. #123
    Player
    Langureion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    89
    Character
    Naomi Langureion
    World
    Aegis
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Generally, yes, tank and healer got more responsibilities than dps. That's why people needs to learn how to forgive others when making mistakes, simple manor.
    Yet most people choose to blame others rather than trying to solve the issue together.
    (0)

  4. #124
    Player
    WowSuchName's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    65
    Character
    Evana Fisher
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Stress & Responsibility are just the matter of how obvious your mistake can be seen.

    In 8 people content with strict DPS check like Ifrit-Ex or T4, if 1 DD is performing badly no one will know but the whole team will take impact.

    This entire thread can be solve just by SE implementing an in-game DPS score monitoring so we can yell the gut at each other for fun

    " HEY I AM ONLY i80 AND DOING MORE DAMAGE THAN UR i90 GEARS !! L2P PLZ"
    (0)

  5. #125
    Player
    Ooshima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,925
    Character
    Rui Ooshima
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by WowSuchName View Post
    Stress & Responsibility are just the matter of how obvious your mistake can be seen.

    In 8 people content with strict DPS check like Ifrit-Ex or T4, if 1 DD is performing badly no one will know but the whole team will take impact.

    This entire thread can be solve just by SE implementing an in-game DPS score monitoring so we can yell the gut at each other for fun

    " HEY I AM ONLY i80 AND DOING MORE DAMAGE THAN UR i90 GEARS !! L2P PLZ"
    Then you'll start to have PF parties with desc that says "IF YOU CAN'T DO 300 DPS PLEASE DON'T JOIN" hahahahaha..
    (0)

  6. #126
    Player
    Leigaon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    740
    Character
    Zara Diaspora
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Carpenter Lv 63
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroX686 View Post
    Do you think being a tank role has alot more 'perceived' pressure on it than actually exists? Or is it really that difficult?
    I think it carries a great deal of pressure. I have taken the route of the warrior, learning pld (mainly b/c of the Captain America throw..), healer by trade and dragoon & summoner out of love. Out of all of these Tank & Healer have had the most pressure when fighting.

    I'm not saying they're hard, in fact I enjoy my great axe of might more than any and find what to do easy. But the pressure to do well or perfect is more there than the dps. I took up the damage dealing role last and it's much more forgiving if you don't do something on my dragoon or summoner. No one cares whe I decide to use Jump or Fester, but I've accidentally hit storms eye instead of path and got called out on it. Or if a DPS decides to do his own thing and not stay with the markers set. I understand it's my job to keep everything on me and I do with my abilities but I've had damage dealers go "No mark this as #1" and will attack even if it's assigned #3, and it's not like it's something major like the summoning mob in AK, take out before he summons..it's simple things like 3 skellies in Manor HM.

    It's a give and take there's no solid answer to if tanking is hard I guess, it depends on the player / dungeon or raid / party members. As a tank though I see people are a lot more nasty towards them, even as healer I watch damage dealers get on a tank about things whether they're right or wrong.

    I guess it's also like WowSuchName said, it can be also about how obvious your mistake can be seen, as a tank it's watched by all like healer..as a damage dealer? Not so much unless it's a big screw up. Like a bard dying on titan before heart due to plumes and blames it on texting...i mean "server lag" but that is another story.
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    Last edited by Leigaon; 02-28-2014 at 03:12 AM.

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