Why no one tanks...

[mythicrose]

I mean, I get the angle you're using here, but it's a pretty big screw-up.

A "minor slip" is open to interpretation. That doesn't mean something minor could have massive consequences. I'd consider forgetting to activate shield oath a minor slip up. It's easy enough to do but can have massive reprecussions.


I'd bet most paladins have forgotten to activate shield oath at one point or another. We're all human and prone to err from time to time no matter what we do (in the virtual world or in the real world). Warriors at least notice their heath pool is low without defiance activated.

[Cons]

everyone gets treated badly by certain type of players which you mostly meet in lv50 dungeons

This ^

So many people complain about another class pulling a mob or 2, game life doesnt always have to be so Vanilla, well, not all of the time

[Verius_Nox]

Snip.

In how I view it, I say "I should have used the ability a half a second earlier/later" depending on its position, my position, and its pathing. Its not common, and it's mostly just bad luck but it's what I mean by a minor slip can cause a wipe, because after it does, people are like "hum, so what happened". You still feel like poop after.

[Neofirefly]

The minor slip as perceived by the tank equals omg you just majorly screwed us as percieved by the dps is exactly the reason there is fewer tanks...

[Aicasia]

A "minor slip" is open to interpretation. That doesn't mean something minor could have massive consequences. I'd consider forgetting to activate shield oath a minor slip up. It's easy enough to do but can have massive reprecussions.

You're right, and I'm not out to insult anyone or tell them they're wrong, or that I'm right. It's just, even something like that, yeah its a minor slip. But then continuing to not notice, because as a tank you should be aware of how much damage you take just as much as the healers are, is a pretty big screw-up. Unless you're one or two shot, that kind of slip is fixable before anything goes horribly wrong.

In how I view it, I say "I should have used the ability a half a second earlier/later" depending on its position, my position, and its pathing. Its not common, and it's mostly just bad luck but it's what I mean by a minor slip can cause a wipe, because after it does, people are like "hum, so what happened". You still feel like poop after.

Fair enough. I was just curious as to what you considered a minor slip. Because minor to the tank is not minor to the rest of the group. Like, a tank failing to get aggro quickly. Maybe they forgot to use flash, like the other person said. A minor thing to the tank, but its not actually minor. It's a pretty big slip up. So, I get what you're saying but I thought you meant universally minor things, not minor from a tank's perspective.

In which case you're right, but I don't think that's really what pushes people away from wanting to play a tank. I'm sure it is true for some people, just like some people find tanks boring, and some people feel they have more responsibility and don't want that perceived additional pressure. It's all three, and you can alleviate some of the problems with boss mechanics, or fun, flashy abilities. I mean, I love tanking in TERA, but I hate it in WoW and ARR. People like different things, it's not just one thing that keeps tank populations low.

I just think everyone trying to blame the lack of tanks on one specific issue/reason is silly. There are a good handful of reasons, we can't just say people are afraid of responsibility, and that there is no possible way they could find it boring, or that they're afraid of their mistakes being more visible, or they don't like mitigation tanking. But that's all these threads ever turn into, because god forbid someone find something you (not you) like boring or uninteresting. I don't know, I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but people need to start understanding that it's not all about perceived responsibility.

[Ryios]

No one tanking is an illusion. It just appears no one tanks due to lack of content and party sizes.

There are 2 party sizes,

4 Man Party: 1 Tank to 3 non Tanks
8 Man Party: 2 Tanks to 6 non Tanks

The problem is that in both of these party sizes, the ratio of tanks to non tanks is the same. It's always 1 tank to 3 non tanks, even in an eight man (because it's doubled).

I really don't know WTH SE was thinking when they thought 4 man and 8 man parties were a good size for parties.

It should be,

6, 12, and 18.

6:
1 Tank
1 Healer
4 DPS

12:
2 Tank
2 Healer
8 DPS

18:
4 Tank
4 Healer
12 DPS

It only appears there are few tanks because right now 4 dps are fighting for the same tank, but with a 6 man party like above all 4 of those dps would be with the 1 tank that the current system causes them to fight over.

So imagine a small party being 6 now. 4 dps would need 1 tank and 1 healer, much better than 4 dps being two 4 man's and each needing a tank and a healer. Then imagine an 8 man, which would now be a 12 man. 8 DPS would need 2 healers and 2 tanks, where as before 4 dps would be two different 8 mans each needing 2 tanks and 2 healers. Now imagine CT, instead of being 24 man, it would be an 18 man (easier to manage just like alliance size in ffxi) and would be 4 tanks and 4 healers to 12 dps. Where as before 12 dps would be 3 separate 8 mans each needing 2 tanks and 2 healers.

Mind you the 18 man alliance would only work if SE didn't segregate them into A, B, and C. And instead threw them all into one party UI.

It's to late for these changes, were stuck with 4 man and 8 mans, they will keep it that way, and we will be complaining about it long after this game dies.

Now take everything I just said and imagine how hard it will be to find a tank when SE releases a new job and it's a non tanking class. It will be FOTM, everyone will want to play it, and no one will want to tank. That basically comes down again to party size. And because everyone wants to play the new jobs, old jobs will get the boot, because there is no room in the party for one or more classes.

You will see Party Finder's like this

Tank, Tank, Sch, WHM, New JOb1, New JOb2, BRD, DRG: and you'll go "But I'm a BLM/MNK/SMN why can't I join? sniff"

Everytime they release new jobs they will flood and people will more or less have to level whatever is considered OP, because there won't be any room in the party for the UP classes and no one will save a spot for anything other than the OP classes, because this community has already proven that it will do whatever is the easiest "E.g. Tree Gltich In AK, Speed Running, T2 Enrage Strat, Double Bards (pre nerf), etc etc etc etc"

Let's also not forget that half the problem with finding people to tank, isn't a problem with tanks, it's a problem with the duty finder. I tank and am IL90 on both warrior and paladin. The only time your going to see me in a Duty Finder que is once a day for roullete's on GuildHeists. I don't need to run any other roullete for myth, I cap myth running BCB, CT, and EM Primals. I have statics for all of that, as do most tanks.

The duty finder is a luxury item. It's there to help you find a group when you can't find one through other means. It's not a rely on feature. It was never meant to replace traditional grouping, it's merely a tool for when traditional grouping isn't happening. (e.g. people are offline, you have no friends, people think your a jerk and won't run with you, etc etc etc).

And the party finder is merely a tool to help people form groups on there server instead of shouting "LF1M Tank, Titan EX, etc etc". Just because you make a group in the party finder doesn't mean someones going to fill it. In fact the other day I sat in troll just talking and running in circles for hours while I cooked dinner and the same PT was i the party finder for 3 hours LF 1 Tank while tanks are just standing around doing nothing. Maybe they just don't want to go to Garuda Ex!

But here's another big problem,

A lot of tanks have everything they need from a fight like Garuda Ex, and they don't need to run it, and have no reason to run it. So why would they join a party finder group to tank it. Sure I would help my FC if they asked me, but I'm not going to spend 100% of my free time helping people I don't know kill something I don't need. But I might want the caster ring for my BLM or alt class. I myself would gladly tank Titan Ex ALLLLLL night Long if I could have a fair shot at the blm earrings. If it's a farm run, people should be greeding gear, not needing it. There will always be someone in the group needing on what I want, as such I run my titan once a week and I'm done with it. I'm not going to spend 3 hours on a Titan Ex Kill for BLM earrings and watcha some BLM roll need on them, why should I?

So people tell me "You want blm gear, go on your BLM" So I do just that. I join a group on my IL80 BLM and sit there while we wait on a tank for 2 hours like everyone else. And there like "Ryios please tank", and I'm like "Are you going to greed on the earrings with me?" and they respond "Nah Im a need those", so I stay on my blm.

Hopefully people can see the above paradox and realize that an alternate looting system really is needed. You want tanks, I want loot on other classes. I can't run on my other classes because I'm needed to tank. What a delimma it is!

No matter how you cut or slice that scenario, someone has to do something they don't want to do. Either I have to tank and not get what I want for my BLM, or they have to greed the earrings, and if they don't greed them "wow, what a chat storm that will turn out to be."

This game needs alternative Loot Modes, and that problem would be solved.

Wow had loot master and free for all loot modes on day 1, how SE could leave out something so basic is beyond me.

[ItzKris]

If DPS insist on pulling, I simply stand there and let them die.

If healer continues healing them, I tell them to stop or let them die too.

I don't think you understand why people should be playing healers.
Its to keep people alive, despite them messing up.
If you lose aggro and I get hit should I stop healing you so you can "learn to tank"?
No, I suck it up and do my role, to heal.

[Elim]

lol. I have noticed that DPS will go full out, procs, etc, even if the tank hasn't even touched a boss. They see a tank running in and it's go time for them. Even so, some tanks get the boss back really quickly, but generally a few people will have been 1-hit in the process.

You'd think by level 50 the DPS will have calmed down and learned to wait a second, but I see this happen more often in lv 50 dungeons.

[jabbywocks]

False.

Tanking is mindnumbingly boring.

Funny. That's how I feel about most DPS classes and healing. I literally fell asleep in a dungeon while healing because it bored me to sleep. True story bro. Everyone has a preference for roles and none in more valid than another. There's a reason there are different roles and not just one; people are good at/find different roles in games entertaining.

But, yah, tanks have a responsibility that most others don't; Leading the party. And when things go wrong, you're more likely to take all of the blame. So is the responsibility of a leadership role. Not everyone can handle being a leader.

[Lordfurious]

No one tanks because of all the rudeness. Dps cannot figure out who the tank is targeting unless marked. Instead of "helping" players to improve they poke and prod until that player is Vote-Kicked or Rage Quits. I have Tank, Dps and Healers all with relics running Coil. I understand the frustrations from all angles. This is why they give bonuses from roulettes. To help players advance.

If after politely offering suggestions to improve their play they do not even try to improve, then kick em. Remember every time you point a finger there are three pointing back at you. All the complaining and "you suck" comments do not help. It takes 42 face muscles to frown, but only 1 to smile. Help people to improve, because one day they might be amazing!