The problem with allowing Turn 2 Rage strat

[Ashira]

Please don't tell others that this is working as intended and 100& legitimate, as it is not.

In your opinion.

[Vodomir]

In your opinion.

Applying common sense, what is actually supposed to be working as intended, if you bring a non-intended setup (1 tank, 3 healers), deliberately wait a couple of minutes prior to actually starting to DPS and all of that just for the sole reason to circumvent all of the mechanics the fight has to offer? So you really think the fight was designed for a 1 tank, 3 healer group? You think they put an enrage timer in place for people to just intentionally wait for its expiration? You really think they designed all of the actual fight mechanics just so they can be circumvented?

[Ashira]

Things.

I'm of the opinion that SE designed their game with multiple methods for any encounter in mind. People were doing a single tank and two-three healers for Titan Hard Mode when it was first released. Do you think all content should be 2/4/2? How boring.

As for circumventing mechanics; you can remove them anyway by defeating more nodes. You should wave your fist at people max ranging Chimera or not feeding Caduceus too.

[Vodomir]

I'm of the opinion that SE designed their game with multiple methods for any encounter in mind. People were doing a single tank and two-three healers for Titan Hard Mode when it was first released. Do you think all content should be 2/4/2? How boring.

As for circumventing mechanics; you can remove them anyway by defeating more nodes. You should wave your fist at people max ranging Chimera or not feeding Caduceus too.

While designing fights to be tackled using multiple methods definitely is a good thing, common sense tells you that the enrage strat was not on the list methods, that SE designed this fight for.

The enrage timer was not designed for people to go on a cigarette break to deliberately wait for its expiration. The debuff on the tanks was put in place so bringing 2 tanks (as required by the usual party setup) actually makes sense, as the debuff requires tanks to swap emnity. You think the beduff was put in place for people to say "Well, lets just not pull until the last click has begin, so the debuff doesn't stack too high on the tank?

I asked you to apply common sense. If this is your way of applying common sense, then you must be delusional about whitewashing a strat that obviously belongs in a grey zone.

I'm not for always bringing a 2/4/2 setup, but I think SE (as any other MMO company) designs raids so they can be beaten start to finish with one and the same setup, without the need to change classes inbetween the turns.


As for the all so popular Caduceus "analogy" ... can you please stop comparing this to the enrage strat? It's not even on the same page. Caduceus is played with all of its mechanics being in place, yes you can ignore to feed an add, but this in turn means you will have to deal with higher stacks of the buff on Cadusceus - the core mechanics of the fight are never touched and therfore still intact. Caduceus also continues all of its regular attack pattern. Mechanics are not touched, circumvented or being broken in this fight. ADS enrage is a totally different thing. ADS doesn't use any of its regular attacks anymore. None of its mechanics (the tank debuff, RoT, repell cannon, the laser, and various other abilities inherited from the smaller nodes) comes into play anymore, the ADS virtually stops all of its attacks. You clearly circumvent game mechanics.

[Sapphic]

While designing fights to be tackled using multiple methods definitely is a good thing, common sense tells you that the enrage strat was not on the list methods, that SE designed this fight for.

The enrage timer was not designed for people to go on a cigarette break to deliberately wait for its expiration. The debuff on the tanks was put in place so bringing 2 tanks (as required by the usual party setup) actually makes sense, as the debuff requires tanks to swap emnity. You think the beduff was put in place for people to say "Well, lets just not pull until the last click has begin, so the debuff doesn't stack too high on the tank?

Riddle me this:

If ADS wasn't supposed to be able to be killed while enraged why didn't SE make enrage a one shot mechanic?

[Vodomir]

I want these same ppl severely protesting T2 enrage methods lead the charge against having everyone have ranged DPS for Garuda and Ifrit EX!

I guess your "everyone" is the same bunch that relies on Enrage mode for T2? Because people that know how to deal with given mechanics rather than to circumvent them, also know ho to do Garuda/Ifrit with a melee setup.

Same sh*t, ppl are getting locked out of content because of their jobs for an "easy win"

Please forgive me, but if I'm not mistaken, the people looking for an "easy win" are actually the guys who are trying so hard to defend the enrage strat (incl. you). I'm really sorry to disappoint you, but my FC does Garuda with 2 melees and I can't see an issue running this with 4 melees. Not soo sure what is supposed to lock us out of content.

Riddle me this:

If ADS wasn't supposed to be able to be killed while enraged why didn't SE make enrage a one shot mechanic?

Because the fight was neither designed for people in full iLvl 90 gear nor for people bringing 3 healers and pulling in a way that the tank doesn't get too many stacks of the debuff.

The Enrage doesn't one shot the group to give people who fail to meet the enrage timer some margin for error. So if you only miss the enrage timer by a few seconds, you can still win, because the damage dealt by the room can be healed through for a short period of time (given the fact that the group runs a regular setup, isn't geared up to the teeth and played this encounter as intended before the enrage set it, so healers are nowhere near full mp at this point). Enrage "strat" just exploits the fact that this was designed to give weaker groups some margin, by playing mp song from the beginning, having no one but the tank even risk to eat damage, having the tank pull extremely late (so he doesn't build up on stacks) and then either bringing 3 healers or 2 extremely well geared healers.

[Sapphic]

Because the fight was neither designed for people in full iLvl 90 gear nor for people bringing 3 healers and pulling in a way that the tank doesn't get too many stacks of the debuff.

That's your opinion, based on nothing but your opinion. Unless you are privy to being in communication with the designers and they told you personally....
My points are backed on evidence from an official post. What are yours based upon?

SE said it is NOT an exploit, that it WILL NOT be changing. Hence they say it's a valid tactic. If they didn't want people to do this way they would specifically state not to do this way as they did when they said about mobs bugging out and for jumping in PvP.

BTW nowhere in the fight does it mention enrage... The players labelled it as enrage.

[Spearit]

Riddle me this:

If ADS wasn't supposed to be able to be killed while enraged why didn't SE make enrage a one shot mechanic?

Me me !! i have an answer and it's a riddle too!!
Why did they have to deal with server problems when they release ff14?? Because they can make mistake.

To Nash20. I agree with you but here there is a design problem of the fight. The second tank is useless in the fight. If you don't take him in your party it won't end up skipping a mechanic.
T2 enrage mode, is in my opinion, a really lame strat to use because. In my opinion th most interesting in the game is to succeed in the challenges. If you skip the end game content what is the point of playing ff14.

This be say, i don't really care about people using this cheat. And a simple way to correct this is to make the enrage damage enhance. This will allowed new party to have an extra time to kill ads. And the enrage mode strat won't work anymore.

[Vodomir]

And a simple way to correct this is to make the enrage damage enhance. This will allowed new party to have an extra time to kill ads. And the enrage mode strat won't work anymore.

Actually the best solution would be to let the ADS continue to use all of its regular attack pattern even after enrage sets in. This way people would be forced to learn how to deal with the actual mechanics of this fight.