Dark Knight

[Instrumentality]

Y
So again i reiterate, why saturate the already heavily saturated dps pool with a job that could be used as a tank?

You say this as if they aren't going to add multiple new healing and tanking jobs regardless of what DRK ends up being.

[BrandoH]

They won't add DRK as a Tank because it's simply not a Tank job. It's always LITERALLY been the exact opposite.

There are plenty of opportunities for more tank classes, support classes, and healing classes. This is FF, of course.

[Sylari]

They won't add DRK as a Tank because it's simply not a Tank job.

Well seeing how outside the two mmos there's never been trinity style play in FF you can say that about every class.

DRK's heavy equipment lends itself toward the idea more than a bit, but I generally agree it doesn't work given the thematic of the DRK hurting itself for more damage.

Personally I still like the "MRD DPS job" theory the most.

[Bloodclaw]

You've basically picked and chosen points out of a wiki that support your argument. If you go back and actually play the games you'll see that every single DRK job has exceptionally high defense. On the point of soldier the class that doesn't exist in any game whatsoever save for maybe a splash in tactics. In every other game its defined as a generic character who is usually only temporary. Unless of course you mean Knight in which case we have that already. It's called Paladin.

There are good arguments for having it for a tank and as a dps. But why dilute the game with something that has the potential to be a tank (with a 2 handed sword even) that way we can make way for things that are guaranteed to be dps (ninja, red mage, anything else). DRK, and SAM are both instances that could be potential tank jobs and leave room for other things that can't (or shouldn't) be a tank.

You can say that the job was focused on dealing damage but guess what? Every job pre XI was focused on doing damage save for the ones like whm that were dedicated to healing (holy, and summons aside). This is because there was no trinity in Final Fantasy before XI. Why shouldn't a high armor high health target be used as a tank? Just because they aren't proficient in shields doesn't mean they can't tank. See MRD/WAR.

So again i reiterate, why saturate the already heavily saturated dps pool with a job that could be used as a tank?

I agree I was probably biased, but calling this a straw-man is in itself a straw-man argument here, I did try to look at it as unbiased as i could. I went into it trying to find out where people calling for a tank from the DRK came from. What I found was that in all cases but 1 (In FFX-2) from the selected games the focus of the class was to to do damage and wield two handed weapons and magic to do so. Yes they maybe a tough class in other games, but different games require different class mechanics. Wiki was the best thing I could find as to an unbiased 3rd party. Feel free to develop your own list from wiki (An agreed unbiased 3rd party?).

However in the end, the one time the class acked like a tank, it played very similarly to a berserker. These berserkers wore leather and animal hides, and if you look at the Warriors AF2 art, you will see we already have our DRK tank version, its called the Warrior job. So that job is about literally already in the game and thus filled. I mean look at the warrior's art, it does look very similar to a dark even with those black horns; more specifically the AF+1 armor is even darker, but was having trouble finding a good pic of it.

Again, feel free to use the same resource and produce your own list. I would be interested to see what you come up with for key defining aspects list of a class from the various wiki references.

[BrandoH]

MRD/WAR is pretty much the opposite of DRK. WAR actually heals itself with a couple abilities and lessens its damage to hold more hate, whereas DRK has almost always hurt itself to do more damage, and made itself more vulnerable to attacks (despite sometimes wearing defensive-looking armor). I have no clue why you people keep thinking it will be a tank job.

NIN or SAM will be a tank before DRK.

[Ragnirok]

NIN or SAM will be a tank before DRK.

NIN would not be a tank. If you are referring to the XI community making ninja a tank then that was just poor game design and highly unlikely to happen again. Kitru has already stated that SAM has a lot of factors to become a great tank. I have already stated several times why I think DRK could be a tank job so unless you want to go back I suggest your refrain from making such broad (and already answered) statements.

[Bloodclaw]

NIN would not be a tank. If you are referring to the XI community making ninja a tank then that was just poor game design and highly unlikely to happen again. Kitru has already stated that SAM has a lot of factors to become a great tank. I have already stated several times why I think DRK could be a tank job so unless you want to go back I suggest your refrain from making such broad (and already answered) statements.

I would like to see a list or references/examples please. Simple points from Wiki would be okay. Because the DRK was never supposed to be a tank in XI ether, and when it was it was a DRK/NIN.

[Bloodclaw]

MRD/WAR is pretty much the opposite of DRK. WAR actually heals itself with a couple abilities and lessens its damage to hold more hate, whereas DRK has almost always hurt itself to do more damage, and made itself more vulnerable to attacks (despite sometimes wearing defensive-looking armor). I have no clue why you people keep thinking it will be a tank job.

NIN or SAM will be a tank before DRK.

This is why:
The only people I see who think the DRK should be a tank are those who loved X-2, that exploit nitch group in XI, IV fans that think Cecil was tough (Sure he was tough, he was the main character and had to survive on his own at times; however DRK's side was damage dealing), and trolls. Another group would be damage dealers who don't want more competition for DF ques.

So don't worry about it, at this point I am 95% sure it will be a DPS. I also agree that NIN was supposed to be a DPS in FFXI, and probably still will.

[SkyHighDN]

Final Fantasy IV had Cecil as the main character.... and the majority of his time as a DRK was in the form of a tank.... When sheltering Rydia...... when paired with Rydia/Tellah..... when paired with Edward/Rydia...... when paired with Rydia/Edward/Rosa....... even when paired with Yang/Edward/Rosa/Rydia...... the Mt Ordeal instance with Tellah/Porum/Palum...... The only time he really was with some one with stronger gear than him was with Kain in the first mission...

If this model can be implemented, a DRK CAN be a tank.... Ideally, they would have to have EXTREMELY HIGH HP.... and hurting yourself to cause emnity could be the way to gain aggro...... kinda like a "smell blood in the water" type thing to attract attention....

I suggest it as an option, not a demand.... but with the XIV focus on movement... think of an ability where you can "cut yourself" and bleed over a path to attract the mob's attention to that area on the map... could be kinda cool

Another ability could be a "cleave" like ability that could permanently bind an enemy.... like chop off its leg, and the target will now be stuck in one spot (45 second bind)

Maybe a void ability in which all physical damage is converted into "regen" while magic damage is doubled..... or vice-versa

A taunt ability that acts as poision.... each tick will equal x amount of damage to yourself, but will cause increased emnity

and how bout a massive counter ability..... activating it would cause increased damage recieved for x amount of time (like waiting for the perfect chance to parry), and retaliates with decent damage dealt counter attack that adds a 30 second debuff and emnity

[Ragnirok]

I would like to see a list or references/examples please. Simple points from Wiki would be okay. Because the DRK was never supposed to be a tank in XI ether, and when it was it was a DRK/NIN.

I don't know if you're just adding words to to my posts or what but not once have I referenced DRK being a tank in XI. The amount of players who used tank DRK in XI were very small. Also I've already posted an argument that Kitru made from another post. If you had read my post on page 18 you would see the arguments made.