Dark Knight

[Ragnirok]

snip

You've basically picked and chosen points out of a wiki that support your argument. If you go back and actually play the games you'll see that every single DRK job has exceptionally high defense. On the point of soldier the class that doesn't exist in any game whatsoever save for maybe a splash in tactics. In every other game its defined as a generic character who is usually only temporary. Unless of course you mean Knight in which case we have that already. It's called Paladin.

There are good arguments for having it for a tank and as a dps. But why dilute the game with something that has the potential to be a tank (with a 2 handed sword even) that way we can make way for things that are guaranteed to be dps (ninja, red mage, anything else). DRK, and SAM are both instances that could be potential tank jobs and leave room for other things that can't (or shouldn't) be a tank.

You can say that the job was focused on dealing damage but guess what? Every job pre XI was focused on doing damage save for the ones like whm that were dedicated to healing (holy, and summons aside). This is because there was no trinity in Final Fantasy before XI. Why shouldn't a high armor high health target be used as a tank? Just because they aren't proficient in shields doesn't mean they can't tank. See MRD/WAR.

So again i reiterate, why saturate the already heavily saturated dps pool with a job that could be used as a tank?

[Instrumentality]

Y
So again i reiterate, why saturate the already heavily saturated dps pool with a job that could be used as a tank?

You say this as if they aren't going to add multiple new healing and tanking jobs regardless of what DRK ends up being.

[Bloodclaw]

You've basically picked and chosen points out of a wiki that support your argument. If you go back and actually play the games you'll see that every single DRK job has exceptionally high defense. On the point of soldier the class that doesn't exist in any game whatsoever save for maybe a splash in tactics. In every other game its defined as a generic character who is usually only temporary. Unless of course you mean Knight in which case we have that already. It's called Paladin.

There are good arguments for having it for a tank and as a dps. But why dilute the game with something that has the potential to be a tank (with a 2 handed sword even) that way we can make way for things that are guaranteed to be dps (ninja, red mage, anything else). DRK, and SAM are both instances that could be potential tank jobs and leave room for other things that can't (or shouldn't) be a tank.

You can say that the job was focused on dealing damage but guess what? Every job pre XI was focused on doing damage save for the ones like whm that were dedicated to healing (holy, and summons aside). This is because there was no trinity in Final Fantasy before XI. Why shouldn't a high armor high health target be used as a tank? Just because they aren't proficient in shields doesn't mean they can't tank. See MRD/WAR.

So again i reiterate, why saturate the already heavily saturated dps pool with a job that could be used as a tank?

I agree I was probably biased, but calling this a straw-man is in itself a straw-man argument here, I did try to look at it as unbiased as i could. I went into it trying to find out where people calling for a tank from the DRK came from. What I found was that in all cases but 1 (In FFX-2) from the selected games the focus of the class was to to do damage and wield two handed weapons and magic to do so. Yes they maybe a tough class in other games, but different games require different class mechanics. Wiki was the best thing I could find as to an unbiased 3rd party. Feel free to develop your own list from wiki (An agreed unbiased 3rd party?).

However in the end, the one time the class acked like a tank, it played very similarly to a berserker. These berserkers wore leather and animal hides, and if you look at the Warriors AF2 art, you will see we already have our DRK tank version, its called the Warrior job. So that job is about literally already in the game and thus filled. I mean look at the warrior's art, it does look very similar to a dark even with those black horns; more specifically the AF+1 armor is even darker, but was having trouble finding a good pic of it.

Again, feel free to use the same resource and produce your own list. I would be interested to see what you come up with for key defining aspects list of a class from the various wiki references.

[Exstal]

Warriors are characterized by equipping swords, daggers, axes, shields, and armor, and having high physical stats. The Warrior is usually one of the basic jobs in each game, and its focus is strong melee damage and survivability. In later installments, Warriors were given the ability to lower the stats of their opponents.

The Knight job is generally seen as an upgrade to the Warrior, but lacks the strict offensive focus of the job, gaining supportive abilities.

A damage dealer through and through, with high stats. One of your beginning jobs.

Final Fantasy As an invaluable asset to most parties, the Warrior is often a first choice when it comes to picking a team. The Warrior's upgrade, the Knight, is an even greater source of physical power, and can use White Magic.

Basic unit, did damage. Could take damage better than other classes but also dealt the most damage.

• 1 point to DPS, 1 point to tank

Final Fantasy III
Warriors have a high aptitude for wielding swords in battle. Having focused all their training on physical combat, they are unable to use any magic.

Another complete damage dealer unable to use any magic.

• 1 point to DPS, 0 points to tank

Final Fantasy X-2
The Warrior is a versatile fighter, able to inflict "Break" attacks to hinder enemies as well as elemental damage reminiscent to that of the Mystic Knight.

Straight up damage dealer with ability to inflict even greater detrimental effects to the enemy

• 1 point to DPS, 0 points to tank

Final Fantasy - Revenant Wings
Resembling the Fighter from Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, the Warrior is a Melee unit with several hard-hitting skills. True to its Job description, several of these abilities favor power over protection.

Exact same description as some Dark Knight ones (pulled by yourself).

• 1 point to DPS, 0 points to tank

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
The Warrior is the basic melee unit of the Bangaa, with great HP and Attack growth, but low Magic and Speed. [/b]

Explicit description of the great HP leads to think Warrior could be a great tank but the secondary idea of great Attack means primary usage is DPS.

• 1 point DPS, 1 point to tank

**Tactic Advance 2 is the same

• 1 point DPS, 1 point to tank

Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King
The Warrior is a job exclusive to Clavats and male Lilties. It is a hard hitting class that uses strong offensive skills and a few defensive abilities.

Strong offensive and few defensive means DPS, according to popular description

• 1 point DPS, 0 points tank

Final Fantasy Dimensions
The Warrior is a starting job class available to both groups. Its keeps its pure offensive focus.

As description shows.

• 1 point dps, 0 points tank

So based on the wiki page, Warrior should have been a pure DPS class given there are few games where it did more tank-like actions than it did DPS. But Square Enix decided to fuse it with Beserker and make it into a tank. Why? High HP from a few games, melee class dictated that it was a perfectly viable tank candidate.

Going by the wiki is fine for unbiased information, but one must look at information with an open mind. It's like people, with emotional attachment, don't listen to reason or even *try* to listen to reason. It's perfectly understandable that Dark Knight could, and more than likely will be, a DPS class. Although, if you're completely disregarding the possibility that it could be a tank class, that's just ignorance. There is no explicit proof that Dark Knight could be a tank just like there was no explicit proof that Warrior could be a tank but Square Enix made it so.

Then the argument gets made,

Final Fantasy XI made Warrior a tank, so that's where it comes from.

That's all fine and dandy in bizarro world until you remember that FFXI is where Ninja, who had 0 points in being able to tank in any previous game, became a tank in FFXI. Does this mean Ninja should be a tank in FFXIV? Should Thief (if it became a job) should be an evasion tank as well since it's just a weaker Ninja? How about Dancer? Where does it stop?

In the end, Square Enix might only add *one* more tank and *one* more healer to the FFXIV roster and then everything else will be DPS. If that's the case, then Samurai will more than likely be tank and Dark Knight would be DPS. However, if that's not the case Square Enix would be shooting themselves in the foot if they give away possible tank candidates to make classes that have no place being tanking class into tanks (see FFXI Ninja).

Total Points

8 points DPS
3 points Tank

[Gamemako]

A damage dealer through and through, with high stats. One of your beginning jobs.... Basic unit, did damage. Could take damage better than other classes but also dealt the most damage.

Fighter/Warrior/Knight was the closest thing to a tank in FF1. In III, it was the most durable starting job which grew into the third-most-durable job with Knight (after be-all-end-all Ninja and level 99 joke Onion Knight). And did you seriously decide that the most durable starting job is a pure DD because it can't use magic? Anyway, in X-2, Warrior is again one of the most durable jobs, having the second-highest Defense (after Dark Knight) and third-highest HP (after Berserker and Dark Knight) as long as we're excluding lolmascots. The Warriors have the unique guard ability (Sentinel) as well, though that's kind of misleading. The trick here is that they're really Mystic Knights. They come with elemental sword attacks and auto-protect as well as other debuffs. In FFTA/2, the Warrior is the starting job for Bangaa and is a stepping-stone job. It fill all physical roles before meeting obsolescence.In Dimensions, Warrior is the most durable starting job (again) and is only out-tanked by the team-specific knight job.

If we're going by their status when you get them, they are:

FF1: Most durable starting job, upgraded
FF3: Most durable starting job, obsoleted
FFX-2: Most durable starting job, falls behind when Dark Knight appears but only fully obsoleted by joke dressphere
FFRW: Dunno?
FF11: Started a tank, at least.
FFCCMLaaK: Dunno.
FFD: Most durable starting job, falls behind when team-respective Knight shows up and is functionally obsoleted
FFTA/2: Most durable starting job for Bangaa, obsoleted

So yeah, it's pretty much always the most durable starting job in all of these games where this is no true tank. The one that obsoletes or upgrades it is almost always Knight/Paladin.

[Bloodclaw]

*Snip*

8 points DPS
3 points Tank

I'll take this red-herring about the warrior points vs. a counter list to my dark knight list a concede to my correct point of view on the dark knight.
Thanks for the fish!

I am more than open to counter arguments on points about the DRK but quite honestly I don't feel like exhausting myself on a side subject.
Anyway, last comment I will make on the subject of warrior here. Just looking at the warrior and I think anyone not biased could see that this is the dark tank of the game, not the dark knight.

I highly doubt that the dark knight will be a tank with this class already in the game and looking like this. It just wouldn't make sense.