Is "PvP" farming allowed?

[xxalucard]

[SIZE=2] I think that many of the rules are fairly subjective (advantage always goes to ES) and I believe I could make a pretty good argument that creating two teams that agree to trade win/losses for quick profit would violate the following rule:

While I agree with your philosophy, there isn't any official word that matching with people to trade wins/losses is "not intended."

I'm completely on the same side-- that this is an obvious abuse of the system. But honestly that's just our opinions.

Abusing the Random Matching System:

- People currently bypass the random matching system to play duty roulette with their friends.
- People currently abuse the commendation system by doing the same thing to match with friends in Guildhests, and then give each other quick commendations.

^ No one is currently being punished for participating in either exploit.

Where do you draw the line for manipulating the duty finder? One could argue that there's currently no other way to play against your friends in PvP outside of exploiting the system.


Ultimately I agree that boosting for experience is lame, and wouldn't do it myself. But at the same time it feels more like "videogame morals" than actual cheating. Especially because it's hard to prove outside of the chat log.

Someone could get 4 friends that aren't as good to play against them repeatedly-- and gain the same benefit. If their friends aren't intentionally throwing the match, is it boosting? I mean, something doesn't feel right about that either...

Without an official response from SE on what they feel is intended, you can't really make a definite argument either way.

[realistic1]

While I agree with your philosophy, there isn't any official word that matching with people to trade wins/losses is "not intended."

There does not have to be an official word regarding every single possible exploit/bug/mechanic/manipulation possible in this game. The catchall for this is the verbiage I provided in my last reply. If the act falls under a main category violation such as an intentional act that impacts game balance, then ES has the right to take action against someone intentionally throwing matches providing an unfair advantage to another.

- People currently bypass the random matching system to play duty roulette with their friends. People currently abuse the commendation system by doing the same thing to match with friends in Guildhests, and then give each other quick commendations. No one is currently being punished for participating in either exploit.

So your argument here is that three wrongs then make a right? Regardless of whether an action has been taken by ES, it has no bearing on whether an action can be taken. I still see bots I reported weeks ago, this does not in any way suggest to me that bots are legal.

Ultimately I agree that boosting for experience is lame, and wouldn't do it myself. But at the same time it feels more like "videogame morals" than actual cheating.

I disagree.

Someone could get 4 friends that aren't as good to play against them repeatedly-- and gain the same benefit. If their friends aren't intentionally throwing the match, is it boosting?

If no discussion took place about trading wins and both teams do nothing intentionally to give the other an unfair advantage other than queuing at the same time, I would not consider this action as trading win/losses.

Without an official response from SE on what they feel is intended, you can't really make a definite argument either way.

But your previous statement was that this action was ‘not’ against any rules and I disagree for the reasons provided in this and my previous post.

If I were an ES employee, I could make a very definite and effective argument for banning someone for agreeing to trade wins and losses against one another in a pvp match resulting in an unfair advantage over someone that is not willing to manipulate the system to gain the unfair advantage.

Again, ES has final say in what is and is not acceptable (with advantage on their side) and their decision on what is and is not acceptable does not have to be based on something literally spelled out in the rules. Anyone reading this knows that the system was not intended for 8 people to get together and intentionally trade wins and losses for quick rewards and that any ES employee would have a legitimate reason to ban someone for this activity under the violation of activities that impact game balance.

Again, I would report the action, provide details and names, and offer screen prints. If you do not agree, simply do not report.

[Imapooonu]

snip

It is not a violation nor a reportable offense.

If a dps is tired of waiting for a Sunken Temple of Qarn que and they group with a tank to speed up the que time are they exploiting?

If someone finds 7 other people to pvp with, and the game mechanics allow for those people to play together in a regular fashion are they in violation?

As far as letting people win marks...I pass on tank gear for FC members when in various dungeons...am I in violation?

It's a lame way of getting marks, but one could argue they are playing the game as intended. There's nothing punishable about letting people win.

[realistic1]

It is not a violation nor a reportable offense.

I completely disagree and your attempt at comparisons fail. We are discussing two groups getting together and purposely throwing matches so that rewards are provided based on an intentional, unfair, unbalanced win/loss situation.

I could not help but snicker a bit with a visual I got when reading your one invalid example of passing on gear in a dungeon so that a FC member could loot it. My visual was a win/lose option button prior to the beginning of a pvp match in the same location as your need/greed/pass loot option. Perhaps if ES installs the win/lose button, I might be in more agreement with you (from a violation standpoint not moral).

I cannot help but wonder about all those promoting/condoning this action. Guess this activity is going strong in the pvp community and my pointing out that it is in violation of activities that impact game balance has ruffled some very specific feathers?

Again, I suggest that everyone report anyone purposely setting up matches with a win/loss trade and take screen prints.

And kudos to you Maqaqa for not stooping to the level of cheating to gain easy marks. It is people like you that we need more of in this game and those practicing or promoting exploits, cheats, and illegal activity should be the ones stepping aside to make room for more players like you.

[Maqaqa]

And kudos to you Maqaqa for not stooping to the level of cheating to gain easy marks. It is people like you that we need more of in this game and those practicing or promoting exploits, cheats, and illegal activity should be the ones stepping aside to make room for more players like you.

Thanks man, but the harsh truth is that people like me is already looking for the next MMO, possibly one where i can take pvping a bit more "seriously".

[Imapooonu]

……..We are discussing …

I know, I read, thank you.

I could not help but snicker a bit with a visual I got when reading your one invalid example of passing on gear in a dungeon so that a FC member could loot it. My visual was a win/lose option button prior to the beginning of a pvp match in the same location as your need/greed/pass loot option. Perhaps if ES installs the win/lose button, I might be in more agreement with you (from a violation standpoint not moral).

Dude, I don’t know what your problem is. This is a very common occurrence in MMOs, always has been, always will be. Your over-the-top idealism is overreaching on so many levels with this statement. I’m not trying to offend you, but you are waaaaay out of line with this. This is a very bad analogy and not akin to a win/loss button at all.

I cannot help but wonder about all those promoting/condoning this action.

Ya know I appreciate the stance you’re taking (sort of), but just because someone can objectively look at this particular scenario and comment as such without a subjective bias does not mean they promote or condone anything.

You should think about that when making statements like this.

Again, I suggest that everyone report anyone purposely setting up matches with a win/loss trade and take screen prints.

Don’t. It’s a waste of time. Unless someone flat out says, “Hey guys we’re exploiting the mechanic and screw it!” there’s nothing that will be done. All they have to say is, “I’m playing with my buddies…what’s wrong with that?”

No one likes watching people ride to the top without paying the dues everyone else had to pay, and likewise, no one likes wasting effort on something that will count for nothing in the end. Even if you got the attention of a GM in game, you’d have to prove it, which would be impossible.

If you guys wanna make a difference, start with botter/RTM petitioning, or maybe even contribute to the “please improve crafting” threads or something.

[realistic1]

Dude, I don’t know what your problem is. This is a very common occurrence in MMOs, always has been, always will be. Your over-the-top idealism is overreaching on so many levels with this statement. I’m not trying to offend you, but you are waaaaay out of line with this. This is a very bad analogy and not akin to a win/loss button at all.

I believe you failed to see my point.

I agree that the analogy is a fail but, it was not my analogy. You provided the example of passing on loot in a dungeon as a comparison for the discussion on whether two teams agreeing to intentionally throw matches to trade wins violates game rules. My facetious point is that this is not even close to being a valid comparison as you have a PASS option button on loot given to you by developers as a legitimate choice.

Ya know I appreciate the stance you’re taking (sort of), but just because someone can objectively look at this particular scenario and comment as such without a subjective bias does not mean they promote or condone anything. You should think about that when making statements like this.

And why do you assume that I am referring to someone that is simply looking objectively at the situation rather than someone that is condoning and promoting as stated???