An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[ApplePie]

I'm a Hard-core player and think that an experience points loss is pointless. In FFXI it had a point, the fastest way to level up was killing monsters and that takes time. In FFXIV, you pick up a guild leve like dunesfolk for dinner and get 40k sp in 10 minutes. How would you handle death during a guild leve? As a DoM, I get one shot frequently if I don't have emulate up or if the monsters that I spawned decide to one shot me because I started the leve (which don't tell me have a DoW start the leve; if I am the only one who has the leve, that's not possible). There should be equipment durability loss at most. You are the one who thinks you are hard-core because you lose sp/exp when you die? And to say otherwise is a "wow" clone? Ok, message me back when you get double shadowseared while fighting Dodore and instantly die. That isn't a because it is "too easy" it is because of THMs not having enough HP and a lack of magic defense having a proper role. Come back to me after you have a rank 50 DoM and die three times in a guild leve because of random melee attacks.

[Nharil]

I'm a Hard-core player and think that an experience points loss is pointless. In FFXI it had a point, the fastest way to level up was killing monsters and that takes time. In FFXIV, you pick up a guild leve like dunesfolk for dinner and get 40k sp in 10 minutes. How would you handle death during a guild leve? As a DoM, I get one shot frequently if I don't have emulate up or if the monsters that I spawned decide to one shot me because I started the leve (which don't tell me have a DoW start the leve; if I am the only one who has the leve, that's not possible). There should be equipment durability loss at most. You are the one who thinks you are hard-core because you lose sp/exp when you die? And to say otherwise is a "wow" clone? Ok, message me back when you get double shadowseared while fighting Dodore and instantly die. That isn't a because it is "too easy" it is because of THMs not having enough HP and a lack of magic defense having a proper role. Come back to me after you have a rank 50 DoM and die three times in a guild leve because of random melee attacks.

You bring up a lot of good points, but MANY (not all) instant-deaths can be attributed to imbalances in the damage formulas and armory system. The larger the level gap is between the player and the monster, the more ridiculous the damage output seems to be. 5000+ damage from a single standard attack from a monster? It's funny to see large numbers show up like that from a fluke aggro, but to me it feels like a pretty glaring issue with the way the underlying system itself is calculating damage.

Honestly, it doesn't matter whether you're a hardcore player or not -- death will affect casual and hardcore players in exactly the same way, whether it's SP loss or not. Death isn't meant to be a pretty thing.

[Maverick_Hawkeye]

I'm a Hard-core player and think that an experience points loss is pointless. In FFXI it had a point, the fastest way to level up was killing monsters and that takes time. In FFXIV, you pick up a guild leve like dunesfolk for dinner and get 40k sp in 10 minutes. How would you handle death during a guild leve? As a DoM, I get one shot frequently if I don't have emulate up or if the monsters that I spawned decide to one shot me because I started the leve (which don't tell me have a DoW start the leve; if I am the only one who has the leve, that's not possible). There should be equipment durability loss at most. You are the one who thinks you are hard-core because you lose sp/exp when you die? And to say otherwise is a "wow" clone? Ok, message me back when you get double shadowseared while fighting Dodore and instantly die. That isn't a because it is "too easy" it is because of THMs not having enough HP and a lack of magic defense having a proper role. Come back to me after you have a rank 50 DoM and die three times in a guild leve because of random melee attacks.

Couple things... dieing is something that will happen in this game.... the idea is that there are consequences for dieing...

And the point that you can easily get SP back should be what makes this system actually make sense!! It eliminates the need to search out an xp party and waste your entire day...

I was running a leve group to grind to 50- and none of the DoM were dieing.. so... yea.... maybe adjust the leve difficulty if you're struggling?

[Reika]

Several death penalties I have seen in other MMO's have been equipment damage, EXP loss, De-leveling, and having to run back to the place you died to respawn or retrieve your equipment. All of these have lead to a few things: Anger, Rage quits, people getting others killed on purpose, you name it. I would rather the current weakness be the only penalty and it to remain fun to play with others. I already KNOW of some people that will turn into whiney babies when they die, and i dont want to hear all that...

[Kurokikaze]

Bad part about that is, if you're going to repair anyway, why fear a little death. Currently repairing a 10% equipment is the same as repairing a 74% equipment.

And if you can repair your own equipment..that shall we say is pretty darn cheap, death warp away!

And for SP debuff...it's all XP debt in WoW...it curbed people somewhat but not much for end-gamers. Those reckless end-gamers are still dying by the dozens every so often.

It all comes down to SP again, though de-leveling is a controversy.

What are you talking about? The penalty for death in WoW is gear damage.

And if you think -10% gear damage is too low now, thats because you're not doing anything where you're dying constantly. Testing things in game; new encounters, balance of current encounters even just walking around and getting 1 shot because damage calculations are completely skewed all leads to a lot of death. I assure you you'll think twice about it when you do something in game were the chances of dying are high and not just from your own mistakes.

I'm not fond of losing my progress and valuable time because you guys seem to like that archaic penalty for players.

[Kaizer]

I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but I agree for a little bit stronger penalty on death. Just a smidgen bit. It doesn't have to be an SP loss, but something to make the game feel like more like an adventure. I'm a casual player in FF14 and was so in FF11 as well (still got two 3 jobs to 75 though), but I've been playing both since they came out (I was even in FF14 beta), and that feeling of going somewhere dangerous and surviving just isn't there.

Maybe if you die too often too fast, that is when you start losing SP. Like, a cool down meter that says 3 minutes and every time you die it goes down by 1 minute but starts regenerating at a certain rate. If you die when its at 0, you lose SP? Something along these lines. A sort of middle ground between no SP loss and SP loss but the player has the control. They can decide to be cautious or live dangerously depending on where they are in the meter.

[Goldfighter]

I'd much rather not lose sp/xp when I die. So many times now while I have been AOE'n a couple mobs a damn goat comes from behind me (why they gotta sniff my butt every time I'm near one is beyond me) and gets hit by the AOE, which makes me...dead. It's happened rather often and if I was punished because every goat in the game feels the need to get close to me when i'm near, well I dunno /ragequit prolly lol.

[Akumu]

My main problem with the sp loss is its just gives the possible idiot next to me a tool destroy my fun and mood in game. In XI i died plenty of times taking all aggro so my party could escape. ONLY because the idiot tank or healer had a disagreement and just disbanded in the middle of a pull(or both if they were friends). I also died plenty of times because of someones internet company...They were fixing the lines or something and the guy was lagging. Now Why should I have my time set back because of someone else? Yes I know I can do leves but seriously that leve could help me further increase rank not regain loss sp that a possible idiot made me lose...

[Wynn]

I'd much rather not lose sp/xp when I die. So many times now while I have been AOE'n a couple mobs a damn goat comes from behind me (why they gotta sniff my butt every time I'm near one is beyond me) and gets hit by the AOE, which makes me...dead. It's happened rather often and if I was punished because every goat in the game feels the need to get close to me when i'm near, well I dunno /ragequit prolly lol.

This actually doesn't happen anymore. They fixed the mob follow thing.

[Goldfighter]

This actually doesn't happen anymore. They fixed the mob follow thing.

When did they change it? Haven't been on in a bit, prolly why I hadn't noticed.