"Need" should check ilevel

[IndigoHawk]

Right now you're the player that's undergeared. Imagine instead if you were the player overgeared and you wanted a vanity item. Everytime you played there was someone undergeared compared to you.

Would you want to run the dungeon over and over having no chance to get the loot you wanted? What's fun about that? If you each run the dungeon once, then you should each have a crack at the item. Need gives priority to the class you play, so if you want gear for a specific class, then play as that class.

Also, if you're able complete the dungeon without that gear, then you obviously don't need that gear to complete the same dungeon again. You don't "need" that gear to run the dungeon any more than the player who rolls for vanity.

[MGunns]

OP needs to get over being butthurt over an item. The geared player has every right to the same item as the undergeared player. Consider it payment for carrying them if you must. People have always collected items in MMO's, this is nothing new. If you win, you win, if you don't, then run it again and hope for a different outcome.

[LordSaviour]

This is the generic answer I see a lot of people use;

Don't like people being mean, lotting gear they shouldn't be?? Make your own PT with LS or FC Mates. Problem. Solved. Or go play Skyrim Job, no people taking your loot in that game.

[Worm]

You can also trade in items for GC seals so if I'm able to need on something I usually do. Sometimes people will mention they'd like it for an alt and I will let them have it but unless ya speak up no one knows.

You really don't think you should be using the greed function for this particular situation?

It's sort of silly that the person who actually needs to speak up and try to convince someone who wants it for vanity or seals to not roll need, while the idea of the person who wants it for vanity or seals speaking up and asking if it's okay is somehow abnormal. I really don't know what to say beside refer to my first post in this thread. You guys are missing out on some common etiquette and justifying it with sweeping arguments that basically justify anyone needing regardless of reason.

I don't agree with modifying the loot system, but geez, needing for seals? I don't even know what to say.

[Versiroth]

Kind of obnoxious to see a warrior axe drop from Ifrit only to see someone with dual haken take it over the guy using a GC weapon. Or seeing someone in AF2 snatch out a piece of CT gear over someone in darklight or AK gear "for their vanity set".

I have to say that I disagree with this. I'm in almost full myth, but I'm trying to collect the CT set for my level 50 Paladin. If you want guaranteed loot, I'd suggest running with your FC.

[Worm]

I have to say that I disagree with this. I'm in almost full myth, but I'm trying to collect the CT set for my level 50 Paladin. If you want guaranteed loot, I'd suggest running with your FC.

I guess you're saying your Paladin is in full myth here? The idea that no rules of etiquette can be obeyed outside of a guild group is sort of ridiculous. Especially given the way CT works you'd see your vanity roll in due time if you deferred to people who actually needed the up, since you'll have groups with no Pally and groups with a Paladin who rolls on the belt and spends his roll. It's sort of silly but you're probably very rarely actually taking gear someone needs by rolling for vanity in your situation, so I don't even know what you're defending. The hypothetical right to do this?

[Lemon8or]

I guess you're saying your Paladin is in full myth here? The idea that no rules of etiquette can be obeyed outside of a guild group is sort of ridiculous.

He probably means his Warrior is in full myth that his Paladin cannot use so he's gearing Paladin up in CT gears. As far as etiquette goes, it's hard to enforce such a rule on players. Sure.... eventually that vanity piece will come up but who to say not another undergeared tank needs it? Would you still pass that time even if the next time that piece might come up is in a couple months giving how many loots are stuffed in a box? I see no problem with a person rolling Need for vanity myself since if that's important to them, who to say it's not as valid as the person gearing up for the content? I usually greed if I have better gears regardless of if the other tank can use it or not just to give everyone a chance to gear their jobs up but some people have a different opinion.

[Worm]

He probably means his Warrior is in full myth that his Paladin cannot use so he's gearing Paladin up in CT gears.

Except if he means this there's really no problem because he's either greeding on the gear or needing it on an alt who actually does need the gear. I'm not so far gone to suggest people apply mains>alts to duty finder raids but mains>seals or mains>vanity, yes, I think that. I just figured he wouldn't be in such a rush to disprove the OP that he provided an example that really no one would have a problem with.

With regards to the rest of your post, I just generally disagree, I comprehend the arguments but I think if you want the gear for vanity or any other trivial purpose then you should defer. Also I don't want to mince about what's trivial and not. There's a primary purpose for gear, and that's to increase stats. I love vanity but I truly believe all uses for gear are secondary to increasing someone's stats, especially in a tiered system where there is an overt amount of focus placed on stats. If you want to lower the ilvl requirement on your next PF group or not get upset if you die a few times on Haukke HM then you're at least being consistent. Though it just seems like there are a lot of people who expect people to be geared and I imagine they overlap with the people needing Ifrit Axes because they look cool.

Once you place your vanity over someone's gear you lose all right to expect people to be geared.

edit: I will put in the caveat that most of this gear isn't anything near BiS, CT loot can be replaced by badge gear (Right?) and HM primal weapons aren't better than relics (Right?), so it's not like I think it's some grand insult to need on this gear, however I do generally disagree with it on principle. I don't think it's a horrible thing to do or that the loot system needs to be rewritten to stop it, but I'm not going to say that person has an equal right to the gear, because I don't think they do.

[PiedPiper]

Why is wanting to collect the primal drops not valid? I have every mog/ifrit/garuda/ifrit weapon for every job. I played all of these fights several times on multiple classes so I could get need rolls. I also have every relic. But I show up and do my part get the win to get the same chance at loot as anyone else. Just because I want it for a different reason doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed my chance to get it.

Also its both unfair and kind of insulting to say these other reasons are "trivial." To be frank, many would say most player who are currently at a state where a primal weapon is a upgerade, this late in the patch cycle... are probably awful or casuals. (Or someone who will one day be great and just started). Some would argue that loot going to a "bad" is a "waste" and thus their "need" is "trivial." If we all show up to the fight and help earn the win, we all get a chance i think.

[rabbitzero]

If this is true, everyone will go to those BOSS fight with the minimum gear requirements so they can "need" things, not good.

This, people will game the system as much as possible to get what they want. You'd see people in the absolute minimum to get the "need". Doesn't matter if they would make the fight harder, if it gives them a chance at it, they'd do it.