Enmity no longer an issue.

[Jadi]

Greetings,

While there might be some situations where it is easy for a tank to maintain enmity, the overall balance of content difficulty has been adjusted by giving consideration to the struggle for a tank to maintain enmity.

Yeah, the difficulty of holding enmity.. you've totally removed it. Content now is a memory test to remember a scripted battle and a internet latency test to dodge stuff because those are the only mechanics from 1.23 you haven't gutted.

Great job...

Edit: I mean you use to have mechanics where PLD would have to generate a block then do a damage move and only THEN could they combo that into another move to get an enmity bonus. I'm sorry but this was better than 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3

[Hyoma]

Edit: I mean you use to have mechanics where PLD would have to generate a block then do a damage move and only THEN could they combo that into another move to get an enmity bonus. I'm sorry but this was better than 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3

Well, I agree with you that now a PLD rotation is mainly based on a 3-skill combo, plus some aoe aggro skills, but I'm not so much displeased about this. I used to tank with much more difficult classes in other games (ex: warden in LOTRO), but the pain in the ass in this game is the constantly present dodge mechanic: you have to constantly move, reposition the mobs/boss, move again.... all this in a game with serious latency/lag problems! This sometimes makes it a real pain.
I think that a more difficult skill management should go together with a revision of all the combat system: maybe a deeper skill management, but with less movement frenzy.
Well, that's my 2 cents.

[Sylve]

I've tried stealing enmity as white mage, simply couldn't... Divine Seal, Regen, Medica II, Medica, I AoE healed all I wanted in trials without the bar even becoming yellow.

Am I the only one disappointed with this?

What changes were made? On my WAR, i never lost hate to WHMs. Even in my crappy barely 50 set, against WHM's hellbent on overhealing the crap out of me while spamming Holy in Cleric Stance ... I think what you're seeing is better play from the Tanks.

Edit: Above is Pre 2.1 >_>

[Nova_Dresden]

What changes were made? On my WAR, i never lost hate to WHMs. Even in my crappy barely 50 set, against WHM's hellbent on overhealing the crap out of me while spamming Holy in Cleric Stance ... I think what you're seeing is better play from the Tanks.

Edit: Above is Pre 2.1 >_>

Shield Oath and Defiance generate more enmity than previously. Also it seems that enmity boosts on skills were increased and Overpower and Steel Cyclone had an enmity boost.

[Giantbane]

The issue with the enmity game is it's only fun to you and other similarly minded people. It is not fun to me when you're a newly dinged level 50 with a grand company weapon battling tooth and nail to hold hate on ONE target in a random dungeon queue against a DPS that is SERIOUSLY overgeared. Shield Oath only provided an enmity boost to counteract the damage loss (20% for 20%). Point for point of damage on multiple targets you can only divide up a Rage of Halone combo to hold hate against a Quick Nock spamming Bard, AoE spamming Black Mage, and multi-DoTing Summoners spamming Ruin on one target while Garuda Egi attacks a second for a certain amount of time before losing all of them. DRG and MNK weren't as bad to hold hate on as they were usually on a single target unless they were tab-targeting and splitting their combos as well. There was no play for a new tank against a pro DPS. You either were there as decoration and to tank bosses, or battled endlessly to hold hate on 3 targets unsuccessfully and swearing to the heavens.

Part of being overgeared means they can probably take a few hits from trash mobs too. They also have lower threat moves they can use (IE: Quelling strikes or evasive jump). There's a little threat bar up in the corner, they know when they're going to pull threat. They can hold back a little if they don't want to get hit.

A little extra threat was nice but it's gotten a little silly now. Especially on single target fights. I barely even use the butcher's block combo now other than a few times at the start of a fight to establish threat.



An odd side effect of this is that it creates a huge break in tanking ability before and after you have access to these buffs now.

I you're doing any of the lower level dungeons before you get access to your tank stance (30 for WAR, 40 for PLD), then it's much harder to hold threat. It's strange that it's actually harder to hold threat at the low levels (where content should be easier since you're learning your class) than it is at the high levels (where content should be harder now that you know it). It's also weird that you have this discrepancy between WAR and PLD in the 30-40 range where WAR has such a large advantage over the PLD here since the WAR will not only have the mitigation effects of the tank stance that the PLD has no access to, but have the benefits of increased enmity over the PLD here too.

[Nova_Dresden]

An odd side effect of this is that it creates a huge break in tanking ability before and after you have access to these buffs now.

Not really, Overpower and Flash give a good chunk of threat now at lower levels in groups. Single target is still rough in trash situations though in mid levels, but I don't ever tank those instances since the roulette seems to only work as long as you want in Sastasha or nothing higher than Halatali. As long as you get a decent weapon every few levels you can hold hate easier at lower levels now until Defiance and Shield Oath. Previously the numbers were too tight that holding threat became a harder task the more item levels drifted apart, especially at 50.

[odie]

It only happens when you mix people using low level weapons with people in relic or better. Right now I feel like upgrading my Curtana would be a waste of tomes... since the only point of it was being better at generating enmity.

this is why I keep some low level weapons honestly. as a +1 Relic healer I can throw one Cure in a place like Sastasha on Roulette and pretty much instant hate. I've found that wearing lower level gear helps prevent this.

Also...I like that hate is easier....even with the changes I still see awful tanks. Do you suggest changing it back and then having even more awful tanks who cant keep hate and then we just ruin the game for everyone? I can only take so many bad runs before I just don't want to run dungeons anymore. I ran Cutters Cry last night with a Paladin that had so many problems keeping hate that they insisted the mobs were out of their control. He wanted to stay on the Princess and have the healer kite the Marshall. Then on the worm, "I literally have no control of what happens here, its the way the game was designed." I never have trouble with this boss. After the healer died over and over, the tank became frustrated and finally complained about having to just spam flash. Now....imagine if you make it even harder to make hate. This situation would have been far worse.

What about going into dungeons, possibly as preformed parties, and allowing difficulty sliders much like you see in leves? Maybe a way to adjust enmity or overall difficulty?

[N4RD]

u sir deserve best post of the year ~

[N4RD]

I agree with you Gokuhan, I couldn't tell if Jubez187 was being serious or just trolling around, either way like you said he's probably not meant to be a tank if he thinks losing aggro is fun. :c

i think what he ment is that he didnt level to 50 so that hes a brick wall being healed there is no risk with no risk there is no fun ... but i dont think alot of people get it cause ive seen alot of people not do T5 cause they didnt wana waste time dying and wanted to wait for somone to kill it and see a ready kill stratgy AKA RISK Free they just wana go in do what they saw get lots leave ... where is the fun in that? i thought advantures come in forms not repeating same ..Cra* over and over ... i enjoy watching videos on youtube where i see people doin Titan Ex with 1 tank now thats fun scr*w tank swaping i wana do somthing out of the system and beat it thats fun

[Giantbane]

Not really, Overpower and Flash give a good chunk of threat now at lower levels in groups. Single target is still rough in trash situations though in mid levels, but I don't ever tank those instances since the roulette seems to only work as long as you want in Sastasha or nothing higher than Halatali. As long as you get a decent weapon every few levels you can hold hate easier at lower levels now until Defiance and Shield Oath. Previously the numbers were too tight that holding threat became a harder task the more item levels drifted apart, especially at 50.

Just because you can hold threat at lower levels doesn't mean there isn't a big discrepancy before and after getting shield oath/defiance. You go from having to work at it at lower levels, and then becomes almost a non-issue after you get the tank stance.