Look what just happened in Duty !

[Elim]

Not that I condone this behaviour(I have not kicked anyone thus far, or agreed to kick someone even if they were bad), but I'd like a link to where it says you cannot kick someone due to the inability to play their role. If someone wipes a raid over and over and over because they don't or can't play their role, wouldn't they be considered a griefer?

Sure people can choose to leave instead of vote to kick, but why is it OK that this one person gets to ruin everyone's run? Just curious.

[Peptaru]

because they don't or can't play their role, wouldn't they be considered a griefer?

You summed up the difference in your own question. Someone who can't play their role is someone who is trying and should be helped, and if you are not feeling charitable (not you personally Elim) then you can say "yeah... sorry, but i'm out. gonna requeue."

The person who doesn't, or worse yet, refuses to (as would need to be the case to say doesn't) is the person who knows what to do, and is capable of it, but simply won't. Intentionally being fail to ruin other people's days or to be carried is griefing.

One is unintentional, the other is some a-hole. It boils down to the same stuff that makes so many systems suck out loud. . . How can you know what the other person can do, or is thinking? How do you prove they're griefing and don't just genuinely suck? That's the wall griefers hide behind and I wish we could tear it down.

[MikoteAstra]

Not that I condone this behaviour(I have not kicked anyone thus far, or agreed to kick someone even if they were bad), but I'd like a link to where it says you cannot kick someone due to the inability to play their role. If someone wipes a raid over and over and over because they don't or can't play their role, wouldn't they be considered a griefer?

Sure people can choose to leave instead of vote to kick, but why is it OK that this one person gets to ruin everyone's run? Just curious.

Look a the live letters where they speak about the vote kick system or look at the letters from the producer, if you are intersted enough you will find them! And why should they be considered a griefer for such reasons !Not all people are good, not all have best skill and they need practise. How will you get better with your job if they keep kicking you of dns how will you feel about it ! Instead of kicking him out why not giving him advice and try to improve his skills together. Then again im saiyng he was not bad he was good tanker.
Its a Duty Finder, you choose it to play with random people, people with different skills and gear and udnerstanding of the game....there is now Party Finder where you can make one play with people with witch you want. And befor patch 2,1 with no party finder you could still make party and invite your type of people in it !

I simply got no words when people do such thing like the once in the the dn i was, i really hope i never see them again !

[Arragomis]

Players who are absent for extended periods or harass others can now be democratically expelled from the party.

* 4 hours must elapse since your last successful use of vote dismiss before you can initiate another. (revised 12/18/2013)
* You will be required to select a reason for dismissal. Please be warned that unjustified usage of vote dismiss is a punishable act.
* Please wait at least five minutes before using Vote Dismiss on a player who has logged out.

It says then in 2.1 patch notes. It states that is used to report those who are afk, offline or Harassing. THAT IS IT. It doest not give you an option to kick people based on play skill in the menu, or gear score in the menu does it? THIS IS ABUSING THE FEATURE! IT IS NOT ALLOWED!

[Arragomis]

I was vote kicked in a party during CM on duty roulette because I spoke up for a fellow player who was brand new to CM and his first time run through... i told the party we should not skip CS, as this was his frist time. He had never seen the CS. They told him go to your room watch them their.. ITS NOT THE SAME.... Nobody should be forced into not watching CS because people are lazy, impatient, etc. Also the new Party finder feature.. .ILV 80 restrictions on fights that require a MINIMUM of 65... its ludicrous.. how do people expect casual, or non hardcore players to ever get into these parties for these new primals if everyone is doing them via party finder recquiring item level above the reccomended just because they feel it should be that way? If the current state of this game doesnt change soon. i will be leaving. I dont like it when elitist pricks have the ability to control my game play. they dont pay my sub... they shouldnt be able to dictate how I party either...

[Arragomis]

NO REASON TO KICK HIM.... HELP HIM!!! TEACH HIM!!!... its so infuriatiing seeing how the community has gone to crap in these games.. No respect for anyone.. elitism, general meanness to others.. its not fair at all, and this behaviour ruins games!

[AyaneKiwara]

Players who are absent for extended periods or harass others can now be democratically expelled from the party.

* 4 hours must elapse since your last successful use of vote dismiss before you can initiate another. (revised 12/18/2013)
* You will be required to select a reason for dismissal. Please be warned that unjustified usage of vote dismiss is a punishable act.
* Please wait at least five minutes before using Vote Dismiss on a player who has logged out.

It says then in 2.1 patch notes. It states that is used to report those who are afk, offline or Harassing. THAT IS IT. It doest not give you an option to kick people based on play skill in the menu, or gear score in the menu does it? THIS IS ABUSING THE FEATURE! IT IS NOT ALLOWED!

You forgot Cheating. But yes.

-AFK
-Offline
-Harassment
-Cheating

Unintentionally being bad doesnt qualify as any of those. If you are intentionally making mistakes, that could be griefing.

[Xayoc]

Players who are absent for extended periods or harass others can now be democratically expelled from the party.

* 4 hours must elapse since your last successful use of vote dismiss before you can initiate another. (revised 12/18/2013)
* You will be required to select a reason for dismissal. Please be warned that unjustified usage of vote dismiss is a punishable act.
* Please wait at least five minutes before using Vote Dismiss on a player who has logged out.

It says then in 2.1 patch notes. It states that is used to report those who are afk, offline or Harassing. THAT IS IT. It doest not give you an option to kick people based on play skill in the menu, or gear score in the menu does it? THIS IS ABUSING THE FEATURE! IT IS NOT ALLOWED!

Objection: Just because those three reasons are laid out does not limit vote kicking to those three reasons. Until it is explicitly stated in the TOS or by a developer/GM that kicking for lack of skill/gear is against the rules, it is not so simply because bad players wish it.

Observation: Bad players four times out of ten are looking to be carried through difficult content. As one who often carries people from various FC/LS through Titan HM (it refuses to carry players through EX Primals) this is very often the case in both DF and PF pugs.

[Nysneirdre]

It says then in 2.1 patch notes. It states that is used to report those who are afk, offline or Harassing. THAT IS IT. It doest not give you an option to kick people based on play skill in the menu, or gear score in the menu does it? THIS IS ABUSING THE FEATURE! IT IS NOT ALLOWED!

That is your own interpretation, no where does it actually state that you are not allowed to kick for lack of performance.

Find me the line that says..........................."Kicking people because they suck is against TOS and is abuse"

[ispano]

That is your own interpretation, no where does it actually state that you are not allowed to kick for lack of performance.

Find me the line that says..........................."Kicking people because they suck is against TOS and is abuse"

You don't need a line that says that. Lack of performance could be for many reasons, some legit, some perhaps not. The problem is YOU don't get to decide that. You don't get to say the person being kicked is guilty, regardless of how you want the run to go. If they report you and/or the group for harassment, they will get a response within an hour or so(SE is rather fast with that type of report). And if they do report you, you have no proof that they were doing it with intent to harass.