Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[Velhart]

No no, Final Fantasy has never used the framework of another game before.

[Gramul]

No no, Final Fantasy has never used the framework of another game before.

The MMO ever coming out over here?

[Arkune]

I really doubt they ever said anything like that. You really should take care not to insult people and show your own ignorance. I very much doubt you're sitting in their design offices.

doesnt look like you were watching live letters and Producer letters before ARR were released, on the Gamescom in German 2 years ago ?! he said he went to the Blizzard section there to talk with their DEV Team, he also got a limited D3 Edition from them with signs from some Producers. He also mentioned in a letter that he want follow the footsteps of WoW.

I played XI and WoW when XIV 1.23 went down. And your arguments about 6 dailys and stuff just made me laugh hard. Yoshi mentioned that we will get even more dailys with every update. but here is a list (like u posted) with some things they are maybe more involving into the Game experience then learn Riding or collect Mounts and Minions but ill mention them below also.

Basic Things from WoW:

- Duty Finder / Raid Finder - first time when i saw this it was on WoW
- Philosophy Points (uncapped/week) and Mythology Points (Capped/Week) - WoW?
- Weekly Raid ID's
- Skill Smashing Battlesystem
- Dailys (more are coming soon, please looking forword to it)
- Encounters with Red Circles/Lines of Death
- Rage Timers on certain Encounters
- Item Level System
- Basic Stats nothing Complex - max. ACC for Coil and Push your Main Stat
- Materia System = Jewelery System [well not 100% carbon Copy since you cant put Materia into Boss Drops at the momentbut i am sure it will follow with the next Level cap]
- Gear Progression Useless since you will replace the whole Gear with a new Content update (every half year)
- Quest [!] and markers where u have to go.
- Hairdresser
- Vanity Slots @ 2.2 [please looking forword to it]
- TonZ of Mounts and Minions (more will follow)
- Achievment System/Rewards

Basics from Other Games:

- Fates / Boss Fates from Guildwars

Things what SE Changed or made the game more FF like:
- Armory System
- FF Classes/Jobs and Mobs
- FF lore
- Treasue Maps
- Crafting System (more complex then others ive seen but not balanced since the gear is pretty useless and with the right cross-class abilitys its kinda a 95% HQ Chance on the highest Gear u can craft)
- Cross-Class abilitys
- Limit Break System
- Chocobo Rising to Level 10 to assist you in Battles
- Some Minion and Mounts can be obtained via. rewards by subbing the game instead of a WoW-Cash Shop Model

Well all in All like i posted on Page 37, this game has 90% of WoW, the DEV Team just enhanced some things or changed it or added something that it doesnt look like WoW with better Graphics.

To be honest:
The Armory System for DoW and DoM is fail in such a game since the Gear Progression and Lockouts and RNG doesnt allow you to Gear all the JOBS you want to Play with BiS before the next Content update will arrive. Some Boss Encounters in this game doesnt allow every class to join because u will always have the BiS (for a Party) DD's or Tanks or Healers and most People(especially Random ones) want the 90% Win success Party.

PS.: I am not offense to anyone of the People they say its not, you can go into every Little Detail and will find something what is different to WoW no doubt, but u cant deny that the Basic Model is from WoW and nothing more and SE just added too much from the WoW Basics instead of adding their own Ideas or experience they made with XI.

[LuizOFOCA]

Just some corretions. WoW mostly didnt create anything but improved things that some other MMOs tried to do.

Basic Things from WoW:

- Duty Finder / Raid Finder - first time when i saw this it was on WoW
Duty finder started in Rift.

- Skill Smashing Battlesystem
I think started with EQ1 or EQ2

- Materia System = Jewelery System [well not 100% carbon Copy since you cant put Materia into Boss Drops at the momentbut i am sure it will follow with the next Level cap]
This is from FF7 clearly

- Vanity Slots @ 2.2 [please looking forword to it]
WoW doesnt have that. Transmogrifier is a little different

- Achievment System/Rewards
This too started with Rift and WoW got it right away

[Ri_ri]

Just some corretions. WoW mostly didnt create anything but improved things that some other MMOs tried to do.

Dungeon Finder is a feature from Wrath of the Lich King. Rift didn't even exist back then.

Materia works exactly like jewelry in WoW. Armor has a slot, you put stats on it... except there you would have certain colors and filling those colors, you'd get even more bonuses.

Again, Achievements is a Wrath of the Lich King feature.

[Pandastirfry]

Just some corretions. WoW mostly didnt create anything but improved things that some other MMOs tried to do.

While I have no dog in this ongoing mess. A minor quibble, WoW added the LFG tool to the game in "Burning Crusade" and it went fully cross server in "Wrath of the Lich King" in 2009... RIFT would not be released for another 2 years in. 2011

Edit: as a previous poster also pointed out, Achievements were also added in "Wrath of the Lich King", specifically in 3.0.2 yet again which was rleased in 2008 so... 3 years prior to RIFT existing, and 3 years AFTER Xbox Live made "Achievements" a "thing"

[LiadansWhisper]

doesnt look like you were watching live letters and Producer letters before ARR were released, on the Gamescom in German 2 years ago ?! he said he went to the Blizzard section there to talk with their DEV Team, he also got a limited D3 Edition from them with signs from some Producers. He also mentioned in a letter that he want follow the footsteps of WoW.

I was responding specifically to the suggestion that somehow the Devs were sitting around talking about how they had to avoid the "shame" of using elements from other games. It was an incredibly insulting and demeaning statement for someone with no damn idea what is actually going on behind the scenes to say.

I played XI and WoW when XIV 1.23 went down. And your arguments about 6 dailys and stuff just made me laugh hard. Yoshi mentioned that we will get even more dailys with every update.

He's said we'll get more daily quests. BUt he has not said we'll get more daily allowances. Right now, I have twice as many dailies I can take as I have allowances. There's no reason to believe that they'll ever overwhelm us with dailies, considering that Yoshi also said that that's the last thing they want to do. It was a huge mistake WoW made that cost them a lot of players.

- Duty Finder / Raid Finder - first time when i saw this it was on WoW

Yup, WoW was innovative with this. Does that mean that SWTOR And Rift and Neverwinter and ESO and, well, basically every other MMO since are WoW clones for using this?

- Philosophy Points (uncapped/week) and Mythology Points (Capped/Week) - WoW?

Actually...this system has undergone a number of changes. In its original incarnation it was badges (just one type) that didn't really have a weekly cap - it was just that you could only earn them in certain dungeons and those dungeons were locked on a per-day schedule, and some dungeons were so hard you just were never going to do them anyway unless you were a super he-man raider in full BT gear. In Wrath of the Lich King, it was still just badges. I'm trying to remember if there were Valor badges. I think there were, but they came in at the tail end of the expansion. Rift dropped right around the time Cataclysm dropped, and it came fully made with two lines of badge rewards, as did SWTOR. So I guess FFXIV, SWTOR, and Rift are all WoW clones! Cuz of badge gear.

- Weekly Raid ID's

So does every other large MMO that has raiding. Are they all WoW-clones, too?

- Skill Smashing Battlesystem

I have no idea what this is, tbh.

- Dailys (more are coming soon, please looking forword to it)

Well, FFXIV came with Levequests in 1.0, which are basically just dailies renamed - you could only get up to 6 a day, after all, which isn't any different from having limited (yet repeatable) quests in any other game. Rift and SWTOR also have dailies. ESO shows every indication of putting dailies in at some point.

- Encounters with Red Circles/Lines of Death

Actaully, no. The vast majority of encounters in WoW do not feature the type of "telegraphed ground damage" that you see in this game. A good example of this is Sha of Fear. During the encounter, randomly-selected groups of people are teleported to various platforms and have to dodge attacks from the mob they're trying to kill in the middle (they are AoE attacks in a cone formation). There is no visual telegraph of where those attacks will land - you have to memorize the pattern that occurs on each platform. If you have issues with being able to visualize the pattern, you're kind of screwed (and as a result, someone actually made an addon to give players visual cues as to where the attacks will probably happen next - but it's still nowhere near the ease of attacks in FFXIV).

Another example is the Malkorok encounter in Siege of Orgrimmar. He periodically smashes the ground in a cone in random spots around the room. He does telegraph the initial smash. However, after he has done three smashes, he then goes back and does a "Breath of Y'saarj" attack in the spots he had previously smashed. There is no telegraph for this attack. You have to a) know when he will do the attack and b) remember where the previous smashes were. All this while dodging randomly-spawning orbs that can kill you and adds that slow you (and prevent you from getting out of the breath/smash).

Telegraphed attacks are actually rare in WoW, and when they do appear, it's very difficult to see them (the Devs really like to make the visual cues match the floor and wall colors). If WoW telegraphed attacks the way FFXIV does, I'd probably never die on any encounter.

- Rage Timers on certain Encounters
- Item Level System
- Basic Stats nothing Complex - max. ACC for Coil and Push your Main Stat

These are also hallmarks of Rift and SWTOR. I guess those games are also "WoW Clones." Or maybe FFXIV is a Rift/SWTOR Clone. No idea!

- Materia System = Jewelery System [well not 100% carbon Copy since you cant put Materia into Boss Drops at the momentbut i am sure it will follow with the next Level cap]

Well, no. They don't work the same at all. And, I mean, Materia has been a part of FF for as long as I can remember. Sure, gems in WoW give you stats similar to Materia. But they are created by Jewelcrafters from raw ore. You can swap your gems out as much as you want - you don't have to go to an NPC and lose all of the materia in your item like you do in this game. You don't have to destroy gear to get gems. And even how the gems interact with your gear is different. You also cannot "overmeld" in WoW.

- Gear Progression Useless since you will replace the whole Gear with a new Content update (every half year)

I'm fairly certain the "gear grind" has been a "thing" since Everquest.

- Quest [!] and markers where u have to go.
- Hairdresser

Because no other MMOs have this, right? Like, Rift, SWTOR, even Everquest has flipping quest markers. They may look different, but they're there. And it's been a long time since a top-MMO was willing to release without a barber shop - players love that sort of thing.

- Vanity Slots @ 2.2 [please looking forword to it]

Vanity Slots actually came from Rift, not WoW. WoW didn't even introduce Transmogrification (which is completely different from Vanity Slots, btw, in how it works) until the middle/tail end of Cataclysm. Rift had it at launch.

- TonZ of Mounts and Minions (more will follow)
- Achievment System/Rewards

Are you saying you don't want these? Although there aren't "tons" of mounts in this game. Pfft. Maybe there will be eventually.

- Some Minion and Mounts can be obtained via. rewards by subbing the game instead of a WoW-Cash Shop Model

Actually, in WoW the vast majority of pets and even mounts are obtained via in-game methods - you either capture them, earn them through achievements, purchase them outright, or get them as dungeon drops. There's only a very few that you can buy from the Blizz store.

Well all in All like i posted on Page 37, this game has 90% of WoW, the DEV Team just enhanced some things or changed it or added something that it doesnt look like WoW with better Graphics.

It really isn't, but like I said, you and people like you have an agenda. You want to be able to say, "omg, FFXIV is a WoW-clone when it SHOULD be an FFXI-Clone, because smashing my face against a wall of NOPE is so much better!" So I mean, I have ot take whatever you are saying with a grain of salt.

PS.: I am not offense to anyone of the People they say its not, you can go into every Little Detail and will find something what is different to WoW no doubt, but u cant deny that the Basic Model is from WoW and nothing more and SE just added too much from the WoW Basics instead of adding their own Ideas or experience they made with XI.

See above.

Materia works exactly like jewelry in WoW. Armor has a slot, you put stats on it... except there you would have certain colors and filling those colors, you'd get even more bonuses.

It doesn't. Primarily because it is produced in a completely different manner. Materia in this game works, in my opinion, a bit closer to the SWTOR model. However, SWTOR added a bit of depth there because you actually have to combine a few things to create the mod you're placing into the item (and mods sometimes take the place of actual base stats).

While I have no dog in this ongoing mess. A minor quibble, WoW added the LFG tool to the game in "Burning Crusade" and it went fully cross server in "Wrath of the Lich King" in 2009... RIFT would not be released for another 2 years in. 2011

The LFG that was in WoW in Burning Crusade was much more akin to Party Finder than Duty Finder. You didn't queue or anything - you had to manually search. Random Dungeon Finder didn't happen until mid-to-late Wrath of the Lich King, and it was pretty much identicle to Duty Finder now in that you would be placed into dungeons with people cross-server and that there was basically nothing in the way of player controls on bad behavior beyond party kick (though I can't remember if you were even able to do that at the start). I do remember the the ability to blacklist rude people in your group, and report them if they were cross server, only came much later.

[Arkune]

Just some corretions. WoW mostly didnt create anything but improved things that some other MMOs tried to do.


- Vanity Slots @ 2.2 [please looking forword to it]
WoW doesnt have that. Transmogrifier is a little different

well correct me if i am wrong but the transmog in WoW allows you to get the style gear on your main gear? Isnt it the same if i put it over an Item or have extra Slots in my Equipment Window?

[OldGeezer]

- Cross-Class abilitys

This is what really sets FFXIV away from WoW. It got rid of the progression trees that are WoW's hallmark contribution to MMOs, which they borrowed from Diablo II. If you used a progression tree for class abilites like Rift and SWTOR did, you're copying WoW. Dailys and Party Finders are tools, but they aren't core elements to WoW. Does FFXIV borrow tools and elements from WoW? Absolutely, but it doesn't borrow the key elements that make WoW what it is. So while it's similar to WoW, it's not a clone.

The Armory System for DoW and DoM is fail in such a game since the Gear Progression and Lockouts and RNG doesnt allow you to Gear all the JOBS you want to Play with BiS before the next Content update will arrive. Some Boss Encounters in this game doesnt allow every class to join because u will always have the BiS (for a Party) DD's or Tanks or Healers and most People(especially Random ones) want the 90% Win success Party.

The armory system allows you to play every role in the game. That's its function. Raid lockouts are preventing you from maxing out all your roles at the same time. They're two different things. It's working as it was designed to work. You not being able to run Coil 24/7 is a different matter entirely.

[LiadansWhisper]

This is what really sets FFXIV away from WoW. It got rid of the progression trees that are WoW's hallmark contribution to MMOs, which they borrowed from Diablo II. If you used a progression tree for class abilites like Rift and SWTOR did, you're copying WoW. Dailys and Party Finders are tools, but they aren't core elements to WoW. Does FFXIV borrow tools and elements from WoW? Absolutely, but it doesn't borrow the key elements that make WoW what it is. So while it's similar to WoW, it's not a clone.

^^ So much this.

The armory system allows you to play every role in the game. That's its function. Raid lockouts are preventing you from maxing out all your roles at the same time. They're two different things. It's working as it was designed to work. You not being able to run Coil 24/7 is a different matter entirely.

You could also argue that the way lockouts work for Coil and CT are either a) artificial gating to make the content last longer or b) another example of SE's "Parenting" of the playerbase. i.e. Preventing us from burning ourselves out by not allowing us to do it in the first place. The latter rather fits with some of their other design decisions.