Despite its flaws, i like this game a lot

[Levian]

Uhm...Not tryin to pick on you or anything Mikita, but it's pretty obvious you're not going to find many people with a negative view of the game IN the game. The people in your shells are among the few that can tolerate or find enjoyment with the game in it's current state. Everyone else that's tried it and didn't like it aren't playing or posting lodestone blogs. In game is only one half of the coin, to find the otherside you have to look elsewhere.

You'll find a better cross section of everyone's views on the forums, because most people who tried it and didn't like it aren't going to bother playing. But that doesn't mean these people wanted the game to fail, I think that most everyone that bought it wanted (and still want) it to succeed. So they poke around the forums, keep an eye on developement, and of course post their likes, dislikes, sugestions etc.

Even if you don't want to judge by the tone of the forums...this game was intended to be a subscription based game, and they aren't charging a subscription fee for it. The "happy" people really are in the minority and can't sustain the game, otherwise they would be charging for it and making a little money (or at break even) while they do their overhauling.

[KaiKatzchen]

Uhm...Not tryin to pick on you or anything Mikita, but it's pretty obvious you're not going to find many people with a negative view of the game IN the game. The people in your shells are among the few that can tolerate or find enjoyment with the game in it's current state. Everyone else that's tried it and didn't like it aren't playing or posting lodestone blogs. In game is only one half of the coin, to find the otherside you have to look elsewhere.

You'll find a better cross section of everyone's views on the forums, because most people who tried it and didn't like it aren't going to bother playing. But that doesn't mean these people wanted the game to fail, I think that most everyone that bought it wanted (and still want) it to succeed. So they poke around the forums, keep an eye on developement, and of course post their likes, dislikes, sugestions etc.

Even if you don't want to judge by the tone of the forums...this game was intended to be a subscription based game, and they aren't charging a subscription fee for it. The "happy" people really are in the minority and can't sustain the game, otherwise they would be charging for it and making a little money (or at break even) while they do their overhauling.

But these people who tried it and don't like it so they don't play it... how can they give an accurate view on how the game should be fixed if they don't know whats going on inside the game? There are people on the forums saying they haven't played in months (sometimes 5+ months) and SE should fix 'X', 'Y' and 'Z'... then they find out "oh by the way this thread doesn't help because x and y have been fixed, z is being worked on now".

The people who do help SE, and the people who want this game to be fixed, the most are people who say what is wrong with the game while actually going into the game to check and test said flaws to see if they are still an issue. I can tell you while a lot of people enjoy the game and can find things to do in the game, they are not happy with the way the game is. I like the game, my shell makes it very fun and I am sure many of my LS mates will agree. But they will also agree that there are problems with the game they want fixed, and that the game can improve greatly. Last night we were sitting there chatting and totally dogging issues with the game, making fun of it but we aren't going to leave or rage quit, because then we won't know when/if those issues are fixed and what needs to be worked on next or brought back up.

If we don't know when those issues are fixed we will keep complaining about it, and how does that help SE if we complain about something thats already been solved? This game cannot be fixed by giving up, it needs to be tested over and over... the people in the game who didn't ditch it want this game to be the best it can so they keep playing so it can continue to improve it, give up to date points of view and know what is happening in the game.

Yeah people can read the updates written, but SE ninja-fixes a lot of stuff in the game without reporting it. That is what the people who do play know, and the people who don't play... well don't know.

Many people seem to want to make this black and white...

--If you stay with the game obviously your happy so why should SE listen to you.

--If you left the game your not happy so they should be pleasing us.

But its not that black and white I am afraid...

--Some left the game because the don't like it.

--Some left the game because they don't like it but hope it will improve so they can come back.

--Some don't like it, or do like it but only log in now again.

--Some like it but know it can improve so they keep playing it to watch it evolve.

--Some like it and don't want to give up on it so they will sick by it and support it.

--Some want to like it and want to play, but can't play at this time for whatever reason.

The list goes on and on, the people who keep playing aren't playing ONLY because they have nothing better to do, or because they are a fanboy/girl, or because they are stupid... its a mix of many many different reasons that can't be bundled up all nice and pretty like many would want to do. It is not simple.

But one thing I do know... to make something... anything work... it must be tested. And if they like the game or not, the people PLAYING the game are testing it and making it better for everyone else who isn't playing but loves, hates, wants to love, want to hate, hopes and wants to see if this game will be better.

The people playing should be appreciated, the people wanting the game to get better should be appreciated, the people who want to play but can't should be appreciated, the people who want something better for this game should be appreciated...

The only people I don't understand are the people who flat out say they hate this game... I don't understand why they stay around, but even with all their hate I think even some of them secretly want this game to improve. That, or they honesty don't have anything better to do.

[trinta]

But these people who tried it and don't like it so they don't play it... how can they give an accurate view on how the game should be fixed if they don't know whats going on inside the game? There are people on the forums saying they haven't played in months (sometimes 5+ months) and SE should fix 'X', 'Y' and 'Z'... then they find out "oh by the way this thread doesn't help because x and y have been fixed, z is being worked on now".

I think you're making some pretty large assumptions there.

I continually check the Lodestone and these forums, keeping tabs on producer letters, patch notes, and the bits of gossip that make their way here with regard to the direction the game is taking and, moreover, WHEN.

When a patch that looks worthwhile comes out, I log into the game to see it. Sometimes, I get back into the groove of playing... for a few days, until all of the problems get to be too much again.

Just because I haven't really played in three months doesn't mean I don't know what's going on. I admit that I didn't bother to check the new targeting modes out. I read the description, laughed. I read the next patch's description, laughed some more. It still isn't what it should be, it still isn't the standard of every MMO I've seen, which is that one key (usually Tab) cycles through enemies, and another (often Ctrl+Tab) cycles through friendlies. Why is SE attempting to reinvent the wheel on this? Months later, they're still not coming up with anything that's even round.

Okay, so the targeting thing got a bit rant-y, but it's just one example of many where I don't actually have to log in to play to know it's still not fixed.

[Mikita]

Uhm...Not tryin to pick on you or anything Mikita, but it's pretty obvious you're not going to find many people with a negative view of the game IN the game. The people in your shells are among the few that can tolerate or find enjoyment with the game in it's current state. Everyone else that's tried it and didn't like it aren't playing or posting lodestone blogs. In game is only one half of the coin, to find the otherside you have to look elsewhere.

You'll find a better cross section of everyone's views on the forums, because most people who tried it and didn't like it aren't going to bother playing. But that doesn't mean these people wanted the game to fail, I think that most everyone that bought it wanted (and still want) it to succeed. So they poke around the forums, keep an eye on developement, and of course post their likes, dislikes, sugestions etc.

Even if you don't want to judge by the tone of the forums...this game was intended to be a subscription based game, and they aren't charging a subscription fee for it. The "happy" people really are in the minority and can't sustain the game, otherwise they would be charging for it and making a little money (or at break even) while they do their overhauling.

I understand what you're saying.

The fact that they are keeping it free to play for now shows that SE acknowledges the deficiencies of the game. I think that all of us, happy or not, are hoping for further improvements to the game.

My main point is that the people who are currently enjoying the game despite its flaws are not usually active on these forums. Therefore the views expressed here are not a truly accurate gauge of what the entire player base wants -- rather, they are skewed towards the most vocal and disgruntled. What is distinctly missing are viewpoints on what SE did right with the game.

I am not saying SE should ignore people here. But just like you said about players in the game, this is only half of the coin.

[Azurus]

I understand what you're saying.

The fact that they are keeping it free to play for now shows that SE acknowledges the deficiencies of the game. I think that all of us, happy or not, are hoping for further improvements to the game.

My main point is that the people who are currently enjoying the game despite its flaws are not usually active on these forums. Therefore the views expressed here are not a truly accurate gauge of what the entire player base wants -- rather, they are skewed towards the most vocal and disgruntled. What is distinctly missing are viewpoints on what SE did right with the game.

I am not saying SE should ignore people here. But just like you said about players in the game, this is only half of the coin.

The problem with the lack of positive feedback is that the positives are so few in number, and even those are debated on whether or not people like them or not. Off the top of my head i cant think of anything that people would unanimously agree that they like in this game, while i can think of some glaring things we all dislike. Both the positives and the negatives are subjective and depend entirely on what people think, thus it is only natural that the over all tone of the community is subjectively negative being that they are the majority. So many people left for so many reasons that even a positive brought up by someone that actively plays can be hated by 5 that do not.

[Anty]

The problem with the lack of positive feedback is that the positives are so few in number, and even those are debated on whether or not people like them or not. Off the top of my head i cant think of anything that people would unanimously agree that they like in this game, while i can think of some glaring things we all dislike. Both the positives and the negatives are subjective and depend entirely on what people think, thus it is only natural that the over all tone of the community is subjectively negative being that they are the majority. So many people left for so many reasons that even a positive brought up by someone that actively plays can be hated by 5 that do not.

i think there were even a lot of posts pointing out the pros and cons a like. But the pros, well they didnt need fixing , perhaps some tweaking at best, so there wasnt the need of goin deeper into it for most people.

The cons well, they still exist and parts of it are fixed, most of them not, some maybe fixed in the future some not.
So that is only natural the negative responses will usually always be the major part, but thats how business works.
It not like a relationship...

[Mikita]

The problem with the lack of positive feedback is that the positives are so few in number, and even those are debated on whether or not people like them or not. Off the top of my head i cant think of anything that people would unanimously agree that they like in this game, while i can think of some glaring things we all dislike. Both the positives and the negatives are subjective and depend entirely on what people think,

You are right that everything is subjective.
May I also point out that saying that "the positives are so few in number" is also subjective? ^^

My subjective viewpoint is that SE got a lot of things right with this game, and I know many of my in-game friends agree: storyline, a myriad of quests for all the different jobs, crafting, being able to play my character in a variety of ways and mix and match skills, being able to equip any item I want, etc.

Of course, the things I like are often things that other people here hate.

It's all subjective.

thus it is only natural that the over all tone of the community is subjectively negative being that they are the majority. So many people left for so many reasons that even a positive brought up by someone that actively plays can be hated by 5 that do not.

Saying that people who hate and/or have left the game are the "majority" is still an assumption.
You may be right, but there are no numbers to prove or disprove it.

Fortunately for me, I see a vibrant community of many, many long time players on my server who far outnumber the regular posters I see here. So from where I stand, the negative viewpoint is the minority.

Again, though, it's all subjective. ^^

[KaiKatzchen]

Fortunately for me, I see a vibrant community of many, many long time players on my server who far outnumber the regular posters I see here. So from where I stand, the negative viewpoint is the minority.

Again, though, it's all subjective. ^^

I will agree with this from what I can see on my server... a lot of the people on my server have been around pretty much since the beginning. A lot of the LS's I see on my server are the same LS'es that started when the game was released. Many of the people in my shell have been around since the beginning as well, and still play.

I'm not going to play the number game because we don't know how many started the game, we don't know how many people are still playing and we don't know how many have left. The numbers game that people play is pure speculation on a persons part to prove their point, if that be the positive or negative of the game. But when it comes down to it, we do not know how many people are on each server so we do not know how many are actively playing.

All I can say is that I see people everywhere on my server and we do have a lot of people playing all the time, so I am pleased from my view point at the amount of people wanting this game to succeed and willing to play it out.

[Mikita]

I will agree with this from what I can see on my server... a lot of the people on my server have been around pretty much since the beginning. A lot of the LS's I see on my server are the same LS'es that started when the game was released. Many of the people in my shell have been around since the beginning as well, and still play.

I'm not going to play the number game because we don't know how many started the game, we don't know how many people are still playing and we don't know how many have left. The numbers game that people play is pure speculation on a persons part to prove their point, if that be the positive or negative of the game. But when it comes down to it, we do not know how many people are on each server so we do not know how many are actively playing.

All I can say is that I see people everywhere on my server and we do have a lot of people playing all the time, so I am pleased from my view point at the amount of people wanting this game to succeed and willing to play it out.

Hi Kai!

I hope we can eventually pay visits to other worlds someday.
It would be really nice to meet you in game!

Until then have fun, keep smiling, and know that there are many others like the people you know on Mysidia. ^^

p.s. - I've highlighted in red part of your post that I think needs to be emphasized.

[KaiKatzchen]

Hi Kai!

I hope we can eventually pay visits to other worlds someday.
It would be really nice to meet you in game!

Until then have fun, keep smiling, and know that there are many others like the people you know on Mysidia. ^^

p.s. - I've highlighted in red part of your post that I think needs to be emphasized.

It would be great to meet you too! Feel free to contact me if ya like. Im on Lodestone and xivpads too! You keep having fun as well!!

@Kai
And Kai, i get you.
Sorry if i ofended you in any way. It wasn't my intention.

It just makes me really sad to see a game with such a potential going straight downhill lol.
IMO the game didnt improve that much.
It still lacks a lot of things and its been 8 months since the release.

People, including me, are getting tired of waiting.
They'll have to either make this game F2P or cancel it.

Nah! You didn't offend me in any way and didn't directly attack me like some, I was just talking in general and responding to what people say. Other peoples opinions don't really bother me because they are allowed to feel the way they want to feel, I only get upset when people attack me for no reason other than they don't agree with my opinion. lol

I agree that it still has a while until it will be up to par, and while I wish it would go faster... SE is going to work at SE pace. I just hope they get it to a place were they can get PS3 people involved. I don't think they will canceled the game, they have too much invested in it. Even if they only have 100,000 players...

100k x 12.99 is still about 1.3 million a month and about 15.6 million a year in subscription fees. 100k players now a days isn't a lot for a MMO, but I'm sure they would be happy with 15.5 mil a year...

I told myself I would give them a year... FFXI turned around in about a year in time for US release. I'll see where the game sits then, and then make a decision on what I wish to do. There is another MMO coming out, 'The Secret World', that also looks interesting so I'll see how that goes as well. I love trying new MMO's when they come out to get a feel for what they are.