Thrill of Battle

[Leiron]

Fixed it for you.

That doesn't change what I said at all.

[Gandora]

That doesn't change what I said at all.

The point is not to change what you said, its to make you read what I said to not be mistaken. You're talking about poping multiple abilities at once when I never mentioned it.

[Leiron]

The point is not to change what you said, its to make you read what I said to not be mistaken. You're talking about poping multiple abilities at once when I never mentioned it.

That was not the point at all and it is clear you misunderstood the crucx of my criticism.

When you macro multiple cooldowns together like that, the macro uses abilities based upon what is up first.
Let us say you are doing progression on ADS.
You may want to pop vengeance during the tank swap in the event he turns and drops a chunk of damage upon you.

Using a macro doesn't allow you to pop vengeance.
Because you have ToB before Vengeance, that gets popped instead, even though Vengeance is a more powerful cooldown that lets you also get inner beast up more quickly.

Its not just a matter of you popping multiple cooldowns, but you also limit your options, because a macro cannot discern what ability you wish to use first.
All it does is use the ability as soon as it is off cooldown.

[Gandora]

Its not just a matter of you popping multiple cooldowns, but you also limit your options, because a macro cannot discern what ability you wish to use first.
All it does is use the ability as soon as it is off cooldown.

When you make a macro you need to know what you want to do in which situation, which result you want to obtain & what you are doing. I never mentioned puting more then 2 or 3 CDs into one macro, you came up with that alone.

I also never said that someone shouldn't use an ability on its own, but I mentioned that macros can be space convenient. There is a big difference betwin both statement.

A macro isn't there for you to put 50 random abilities inside, its here to ease you and allow you to couple 2 (sometimes 3) things together.

My point is not less valide, you will use convalescence in an more oshit situation, same goes for ToB, why not macro them together? Both are 120.00.

The same goes for Foresight & Vengeance, both 120.00, alot of players says that Foresight isn't great on its own, make it usefull, macro it somewhere, it will add a bonus to the previous ability used, why care since its not great on its own. same goes for bloodshower, it suck on its own, macro it somewhere (in a macro before berserk) so that way you will do more damage, get back more HP & it will stop before berserk pacification.

Why is that bad?

In the very end its a matter of preference and/or confort. I personaly think bloodshower is a waste of space on the hotbar so I macro it with berserk, the way I do things might work for me and not for someone else and vice-versa, which I can totaly accept/understand. But who have a right to come & call me lazy when all I do is suggesting something that work fine for me and which they might not have tried already?

If the person have something to back up their argument fine, what was the backup of that guy? (Controller players are lazy/you are lazy!) Was that even relevant?

[Leiron]

When you make a macro you need to know what you want to do in which situation, which result you want to obtain & what you are doing. I never mentioned puting more then 2 or 3 CDs into one macro, you came up with that alone.

No, I went off of this post you made here.

Plus nothing stop you to include said foresight or vengeance in the macro, to increase efficiency depending the situation.

Oh wait guys, we're being lazy again!

You acknowledged putting more than 1 CD into your macro explicitly, then immediately began to defend against coming criticism.

snipping for space

You don't macro abilities based upon the length of their CD.
You macro them, based upon the synergy that they possess together.
So, for example, both Blood bath and Foresight and featherfoot are all rather weak cooldowns.
They all also run on similar cooldowns.
So in this scenario, it makes sense to put them all together, to combine 3 very weak cooldowns that do not work effectively just by themselves and make them better.


By putting Vengeance with Foresight, there really isn't any synergy there outside of the cooldown being relatively close, and the effect of foresight ends up being wasted because of Vengeance's incredibly powerful effect.
An extra 5% mitigation on top of 30% mitigation; they are multiplicative; isn't very effective.

Edit: not to say that macroing by CD is not a good idea, but that synergy is also important to avoid wasting a CD unintenitonally.

If the person have something to back up their argument fine, what was the backup of that guy? (Controller players are lazy/you are lazy!) Was that even relevant?

Hardly, the case of controller users is dependent on what platform they play.

Are you a console user? Well you have no choice, its the main way to play.
Are you a PC user? Then it may be laziness, because a keyboard does afford you more effective gameplay because it allows you to play as quickly as you can react.

It also allows you more flexibility so you do not need to worry about having tons of macros that may or may not be appopriate for that particular moment.
My disagreement stems purely on the basis of flexibility.

Also, this game is an MMO. If someone feels that your gameplay style is having an effect on their enjoyment of the game, they do have a right to complain.
Much like freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want until it comes to the point that it affects someone.

[Gandora]

Leiron, just admit you're either really bad at reading or just plain lazy when its about reading? I'll quote myself again to point the obvious.

foresight or vengeance

or =/= and. You're blocked on me stating to macro Foresight & Vengence together, which I did not.

Depending the situation

The synergy is totaly depending upon situations as well & what you need in said situation, this being said, nothing but "Lazyness" stop you to make different macros for different situations & swap hotbars.

Also, this game is an MMO. If someone feels that your gameplay style is having an effect on their enjoyment of the game, they do have a right to complain.

Complaining about someone else gameplay when the said person is on another server? This is full of sens.

Much like freedom of speech. You can say whatever you want until it comes to the point that it affects someone.

Exactly, I am allowed to share my experiences on what work well for me, and my ideas of what could/can work if tested. This being said, no one as a right to call another player "lazy" when all they do is looking into options (macro in this case) to improve their confort and gameplay.

There are plently of things that I stated & which you purposely ignored to put words in my mouth, which one of them is quoted above.

Another one is the fact some people (me & my g/f as an example) are playing with controller & KB. We do not play with controller when we feel lazy, or KB when we feel like playing seriously. We adapted our gameplay on what is most confortable depending what job we play or what action we do and that since FFXI.

The part with lazyness is totaly irrelevant. Its just one of these short-coming arguments.

[Leiron]

Leiron, just admit you're either really bad at reading or just plain lazy when its about reading? I'll quote myself again to point the obvious.

Yuo do realize that the post you made, was in response to someone mentioning thrill of battle.
In which you stated you could also include foresight or vengeance.
You then stated afterwards you weren't suggesting using 2 or 3 CD's ina macro, but in this quote above, you did.

I fail to see how it is an error in reading when it is something you are explicitly stating.

or =/= and. You're blocked on me stating to macro Foresight & Vengence together, which I did not.

Hardly, I was using it as a part of the argument, not that it was the whole of it.
Are you not being stuck on a simple statement as well?

The synergy is totaly depending upon situations as well & what you need in said situation, this being said, nothing but "Lazyness" stop you to make different macros for different situations & swap hotbars.

Not necessarily, some abilities are just too weak by themselves another CD is necessary to be used with it liek Blood bath, Featherfoot, Foresight and Convalescence..
Those are abilities which improve once they've been paired up, and situations only really change according to degree, which is something easily measured.
Of course you can avoid the problem entirely by simply not macroing.

Complaining about someone else gameplay when the said person is on another server? This is full of sense.

Why are you attempting to shift the argument in such a lackluster manner?
People will complain about the way other people play if they feel it is going to impede them.
This was a direct response to when you stated that no one has the right to call you lazy.
Of course they do if your gameplay is affecting them.
You can't dismiss someone else's opinion, but then feel the need to press yours forward without worry of critique and not risk the same dismissal.

This being said, no one as a right to call another player "lazy" when all they do is looking into options (macro in this case) to improve their confort and gameplay.

Read above.
You can objectively look at the effect of macroing your cooldowns and other abilities.
Comfort is one thing, but efficiency is another.
You typically can't have both simply because the nature of tank cooldowns lend themselves to having to be used separately due to their multiplicative nature.
So slapping Sentinel and Rampart together does afford more survivability, but not muc more than you would think it does.

There are plently of things that I stated & which you purposely ignored to put words in my mouth, which one of them is quoted above.

Didn't ignore it, I addressed each and every point which is why I multi-quoted.
If you felt I ignored it then merely re-quote it and point out what you felt was ignored and I will address it over again.