Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[NefGP]

No one's denying XI had a lot problems, but it made up for it well enough with its charms.


Things XIV fixed:

- Over-reliance on the RNG
- Better crafting & gathering with outcomes based on player input
- No 56k connection cap
- Faster updates/No more god awful Play Online
- Smoother, easier to use UI
- Abilities and Spells automatically learned at level up (some quested but none bought with gil)
- Much more solo-friendly (XI eventually did this as well)
- Far less of a grind overall (while I miss XI's many skill-checks, the game really was too grindy. having to re-skill all your weapons and magic after each level up was just obnoxious)
- No more EXP loss upon death



But as I said before, they left out all the things that made XI great and that makes me sad. I really miss the emphasis on teamwork XI had and especially subjobs. The "customization" in this game is a complete joke compared to what you could do in XI. Even with skill levels being cut in half, I'd rather have the old subjob system where you gained the stat increases for that job along with any traits, spells and abilities.

And of course the devs were also smart to simply exclude or nerf certain skills when subbed so as not to eclipse the main job, such as Call Wyvern being exclusive to DRG main or Meditate only restoring 60 TP instead of 100 when SAM was subbed.

[Vandark]

I've already canceled my sub 2 weeks ago and haven't logged in since. I still have urges, but only when I'm nostalgic for 1.0 or XI, not for this ARR game. I've thought several times about making a long forum post explaining the reasons of my quitting, but no one cares, and I've already told the devs enough times my opinions since the 1.0 beta, and neither back then nor now with ARR I've seen ANY of my concerns addressed, and this game is no longer one I want to play.

I had way more fun in 1.0 (the initial release, Tanaka's game), than what I had with ARR, and 1.23 was great but only for the story and that excitement of taking part in a losing battle, and even though, trying our best, still I missed all that Tanaka wanted to create from and with this game.

I Feel the same way man, it's like we aren't playing because we enjoy ARR just that we have continuously been hopeful for the game since the very start and now what has it become.. It's like come on square what are you doing to us?

At this rate I don't even know if I'll continue to be hopeful and for someone like me who has been practically obsessed with Final Fantasy and played the crap out of every title since childhood, thats really bad. Something is horribly wrong with ARR if I don't like it as a die hard Final Fantasy fan, it's the real fans there losing by not making content relating to there own business model.

Simply saying it's Final Fantasy isn't enough, they have basically camouflaged the game with the appearance of a FF world yet the game feels/plays nothing like a Final Fantasy game at all.

Don't know if someone mentioned this, but we need something in the next expansion like campaign. Like how in FFXI, fighting over the world gave you domination over that land, and every Sunday the nation with the most slayed enemies in a certain area had influence in that area. Stuff like outpost were cheaper, and lots of other things. It brought pride to your faction. FFXI has been going on for years, and people loved it. I do hope they pull the greater ideas from the game.

With these large free companies, things like Dynamis would surely be welcomed.

OMG YES, and not done in a Fate serious if done in a Fate I would -.-/ yep wave goodbye. Armys that slowly head to the main city's I loved that! And there could be outside wars at outposts, you could earn points for gear in the outside world giveing the outside areas more purpose.

Hey another thing they kind of don't have anymore that 1.23 had, chocobo escorts it was a decent way to get seals and also we need better equipment for seals like rank 90 company gear. Hell the rank 90 company gear could even be from a new currency you earn by doing campaigns.

And of course the devs were also smart to simply exclude or nerf certain skills when subbed so as not to eclipse the main job, such as Call Wyvern being exclusive to DRG main or Meditate only restoring 60 TP instead of 100 when SAM was subbed.

Nah in 1.23 you had way more skills available to each class and job when subed also you weren't limited to only two classes/jobs to use as subs ether.
1.23 Had a way more fun battle system with more ability's, spells, more creativity, better strategy and you could take out half a zone on your own talk about fun!
You had a 30min ability which was basically your own limit break too instead of needing to share the limit breaks and they took our 30min cool-down ability's away completely and more than half our other skills for that matter.

The battle system has just been simplified on a massive scale rather than become more in depth and appealing, we were all hoping for more and in every area we wanted more we received less.

[Zantetsuken]

I'd rather see it go more like WoW.. I can't speak on FFXI as I never played that. But some things from wow that this game could benefit from:

Open, mostly instanceless world.
Much bigger open world.
Viable crafting for all levels.
Slower, more challenging leveling.
No hand holding, easy mode derpdy derp colored circles on the ground to tell where not to stand.
PVP servers.
RP servers.
And last but not least, multiple data centers and zero latency outside of huge pvp battles (wintergrasp comes to mind).

FFXIV 1.0 actually had the first 5 things you listed.... It was actually a great game but it suffered from repetitive terrain, a poorly optimized graphics engine, clumsy UI, no real Auction House, bland classes, and not enough "Final Fantasy" feel.

Sadly, they went and changed a TON of things that didn't' need fixing and in turn, introduced new problems.

We all know what those things are:

1) Faceroll leveling = unskilled players endgame, 1~50 content mostly irrelevant, Pace of game radically shifts to grind once you hit endgame.

2) Crafting/Gathering/Economy irrelevant due to dungeon drops/fast leveling/lack of high level recipes/materials

3) Linear Gear progression = Dull/boring gear and a perpetual player treadmill (Monster Hunter, Dark Souls, or FFIX would have been ideal models for gear progression)

4) World-as-Lobby, due to all dungeons instanced + super easy transportation

5) Heavy 'Spectacle creep' (easily obtained over-the-top gear/mounts/abilities/props/gimmicks) makes game look downright ridiculous at times.

6) Far too much hand-holding/spoon-feeding - Virtually nothing for players to explore or discover - no sense of danger in the world.

ARR has successfully met the goal of becoming a theme-park, but to a degree that it has actually become a detriment. When you play it, the systems are up front and in your face as opposed to woven into the world and lore (Just compare ARR AF quests to those in FFXI).

For all the enhancements, Eorzea 2.0 often feels like a world of props and carnival games, rather than the living, breathing fantasy world that 1.0 was.

IMO, FC housing would have injected a bit of authenticity/immersion back into the game for many players, but sadly.....


*Still, most of these problems aren't fundamental and nearly all can be fixed. The direction of any online game can be radically shifted via future patches and additions (just compare FFXI pre- & post-Abyssea). It's just a matter of Yoshi and the Devs embracing a slightly different vision.

[ApolloGenX]

Yeah... the Final Fantasy franchise carries its own brand identity (or did before XIV).... although ARR is beautiful, they are really compromising the brand identity in trying to copy so many elements from WoW, which had/has its own strong brand identity.

WoW brought that brand to the market and through changes has associated a LOT of gaming systems and mechanics with the brand. Pulling that into another game, really evokes that other brand...which loses out on a lot of brand capitalization SE could be doing and alienates some of the FF diehards.

It's true this does have a wider appeal than going with a more FF history based approach. But that strategy basically trades in on the branding of FF and goes for the wider market. If they were going to do that, I wonder why they made the game a FF title? Why not just create a new game?

The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to salvage the damage they had done with 1.0... and decided that an eroded brand was better than a failed one. So.. they went the generic route... lose some of the FF brand identity... but have a somewhat successful game instead of a failure.

[Ceinwyn]

I see the gerne of mmoprg's in a dieing slot, wow will remain the most populated game due to its awesome advertisement, good starter position and because its a quite good game for newcomers, while all other games will go free to play or will substain a (low) population, however i see the numbers of subscribers decreasing in alle games, mmoprpgs arent as apreciated as they supposed to be due to several reasons.... i think ffxiv will have a nice amount of subscribers if they can keep the content incoming but that might be hard because u can finish this game quite quick i dont see ffxiv as a mmorpg to say the truth its more of a quick journey to 50 and then u can grind itemslevels until ur'e bored of it and i dont see this changing and probably it wont they could have stayed with the early ffxi system and use a niche of the gerne but they decided to create a wow with final fantasy elements what will never be more as second option for bored wow Players, for me, i enjoyed ffxi in his early days and a realm reborn isnt a game i would sub for more than a few months until i've have "finished" it

[ErBear]

No one's denying XI had a lot problems, but it made up for it well enough with its charms.

Things XIV fixed:

- Over-reliance on the RNG
- Better crafting & gathering with outcomes based on player input
- No 56k connection cap
- Faster updates/No more god awful Play Online
- Smoother, easier to use UI
- Abilities and Spells automatically learned at level up (some quested but none bought with gil)
- Much more solo-friendly (XI eventually did this as well)
- Far less of a grind overall (while I miss XI's many skill-checks, the game really was too grindy. having to re-skill all your weapons and magic after each level up was just obnoxious)
- No more EXP loss upon death



But as I said before, they left out all the things that made XI great and that makes me sad. I really miss the emphasis on teamwork XI had and especially subjobs. The "customization" in this game is a complete joke compared to what you could do in XI. Even with skill levels being cut in half, I'd rather have the old subjob system where you gained the stat increases for that job along with any traits, spells and abilities.

And of course the devs were also smart to simply exclude or nerf certain skills when subbed so as not to eclipse the main job, such as Call Wyvern being exclusive to DRG main or Meditate only restoring 60 TP instead of 100 when SAM was subbed.

That's a lie, RNGs are all over this place
That's a lie, you can't craft anything worth while
That's a lie, lag on this game is 10000xs worse than on ffxi
That's a lie, I liked Play Online a lot
That's a lie, I hate the ui, loved FFXis ui way more
Why don't you want longevity?
IT'S A FREAKING MMO!!!! SOLO SHOULD BE SECONDARY NOT PRIMARY!!!! MMO!!!
This game is ALL about grinding! Have you even played this game...
Why can't we have a good death system...

[DSX]

The battle system has just been simplified on a massive scale rather than become more in depth and appealing, we were all hoping for more and in every area we wanted more we received less.

They are treating us like children, they are afraid it will be too complicated for us....
So we are getting this simpleton no brainier system.
They are completely scared that any game event causing stress will drive all the players away (well drive their target audience away)
It's a sad state of affairs really

That's a lie, RNGs are all over this place
That's a lie, you can't craft anything worth while
That's a lie, lag on this game is 10000xs worse than on ffxi
That's a lie, I liked Play Online a lot
That's a lie, I hate the ui, loved FFXis ui way more
Why don't you want longevity?
IT'S A FREAKING MMO!!!! SOLO SHOULD BE SECONDARY NOT PRIMARY!!!! MMO!!!
This game is ALL about grinding! Have you even played this game...
Why can't we have a good death system...

Its sad when people think playing a single player game online with chat windows + some group events makes the game MMORPG.

[Aki_Ren]

here is the rest of my reply:

FFXI is a game we loved and enjoyed
but why SE changed it using aby?
lol it is coz SE is going after casuals monies. the started to kick the hardcore (The fans of FFXI) to please the casuals.
with what they did they killed the old areas completely, lol, now it is hard for new players to play because old areas are dead. no low lvl parties no one sells or buys low lvl armor.. etc.
if a person doesn't have a high lvl friend he/she would quite and it happened right b4 my eyes more than once.
and as for the 400-300 players at peak time LOL
that's not accurate, i checked a couple of servers including mine 1500-2000 players and at north America part time it is 700-800.
and that's not coz FFXI is old
it is coz the way it is now it is not welcoming new players
and it is hurting its fan base
with each update they hurt their original fan base more and more

when Aby came out, the armor we loved and we had fun getting and using became useless
the armor we were satisfied with for 11 years now is meaningless
and all SE does it throw more flashy armor in the game to keep the players interested but this is not what the players really want.
the SoA expansion was SE promise to FFXI players to bring back the old play style, if u say ppl were sick of that game play why did SE make that promise?

tbh, I don't think this game will live long if they keep doing this
and Like Dannythm, i loved Tanaka san game more than the Yoshi copy past game =)

[Aki_Ren]

That's a lie, RNGs are all over this place
That's a lie, you can't craft anything worth while
That's a lie, lag on this game is 10000xs worse than on ffxi
That's a lie, I liked Play Online a lot
That's a lie, I hate the ui, loved FFXis ui way more
Why don't you want longevity?
IT'S A FREAKING MMO!!!! SOLO SHOULD BE SECONDARY NOT PRIMARY!!!! MMO!!!
This game is ALL about grinding! Have you even played this game...
Why can't we have a good death system...

Same with me =D

With playOnline security was better btw =)

[LiadansWhisper]

and Like Dannythm, i loved Tanaka san game more than the Yoshi copy past game =)

Apparently there weren't very many people who agreed with you, since Tanaka's game was a huge flop, and Yoshi's is, thus far, quite successful. I'm really not sure why anyone believes that SE would go back to a model that tanked the original incarnation of this game...based on a few forum posts. >.<