Please remove gear advantages in PVP

[SolRising]

I have to agree, I actually don't like gear based pvp. I have a il95 allagan weapon and I still think gear should be completely for vanity only. I'd be really happy if they would just balance the classes, skills etc. and made pvp completely for titles, mounts, vanity gear instead of what it is right now..

[SirGazuntai]

The trouble with having no gear progression is that it stops the majority of players even touching PvP in an MMO. GW2 PvP was a complete flop for the same reason. The barrier of access isn't so low here as it is with LoL and such as you actually need to pay and level up in this game. There isn't going to be a huge amount of people PvPing anymore. Most people won't spam PvP the way they do now, they'll do it once in awhile when their friends are on.

You can't claim to be looking at the future of the game when you don't understand the difference between a P2P MMORPG and a F2P MOBA/e-sport.

MMORPG = The majority of players are here for progression and socializing.

MOBA = The majority of players are there for the fun of killing people, with no cares for progression

I get the idea of wanting PvP to be skill-based, opposed to whoever spends the most amount of time in the game. However, this is not the kind of game for this style of PvP. Look at any MMORPG that tried this and you'll see the PvP is completely wasted. You're asking to remove progression from a game that's all about progression.

Not to mention the huge player-base they'll piss off if they remove gear that people have been farming for the past week. There was already a huge s**tstorm when they changed 1 stat on 1 item, imagine what'll happen if they start taking hard-earned gear out of the game.

Also, I completely understand where the argument is coming from. I play basketball and I'm 6'1", which is small. I'm constantly playing against people taller than me, yet I'm happy to try harder than them to be better than them. Natural height be damned.

[LongNu]

I have to agree, I actually don't like gear based pvp. I have a il95 allagan weapon and I still think gear should be completely for vanity only. I'd be really happy if they would just balance the classes, skills etc. and made pvp completely for titles, mounts, vanity gear instead of what it is right now..

If there is no gear progression in an MMORPG then it defeats the purpose. PvP or not. GW2 'tried' to take this another direction and it failed horribly.

[Seripha_Starbane]

If there is no gear progression in an MMORPG then it defeats the purpose. PvP or not. GW2 'tried' to take this another direction and it failed horribly.

100% agree with this.

If i wanted to play JUST for the pvp, i would play LOL, DOTA or Battlefield 4.

But in an MMO i want progression, new gear, stronger gear, cooler gear.
I want to min max my gear and have an edge over people who dont bother.

[LongNu]

Both in GW2 and SWTOR where gear is close to vanity only, the competative pvp element has failed horribly. People want to progress. Thats why they play mmos.
Skill based pvp sounds really nice, but it gets boring really quick if you arent working to goals that give you the edge. Same applies for pve. Why not make skill based pve? Cause people want progress, creating a mega strong character, who can do more than other peoples characters can.

This, although I prefer a rating system with a ladder.

[Seripha_Starbane]

This, although I prefer a rating system with a ladder.

Agreed. The wow system in that sense was nice. As it helped with matchmaking, rewards and epeen

Loved how at a "quite attainable" rating you could get a better weapon. Hope they implement something similar here.

[Seripha_Starbane]

Sorry if you noobs want to cry about gear vs skill. If you can't win the matches to even get said gear.... I don't know what to tell you. Stay out of the arena.

Agreed fully. Why should people in not even full DL, now be better than people who bothered making full pvp gear (which is incredibly easy). And i dont mind if people who busted their asses in pve, at least till people get better pvp gear have a small advantage at start. The system as it is now, is just a grind, and im sure they will make upgrades to it once things smooth out.

Just dont make the mistake swtor and gw2 made in their competative pvp element.

[MrMr]

The trouble with having no gear progression is that it stops the majority of players even touching PvP in an MMO.

The majority of people are not going to be touching or only barely touch small group arena PvP in any MMO. Most people do not play MMOs for the PvP.

GW2 PvP was a complete flop for the same reason. The barrier of access isn't so low here as it is with LoL and such as you actually need to pay and level up in this game.

The original Guild Wars PvP is a giant success. Guild Wars 2 PvP's failures had little to do with a progression system, and a lot to do with bad designers. Designers who are unable to understand how their decisions affected how the game plays, how weapon swapping should be used as a mechanic in pvp, how their healing system would function, they are so inept that basically every update since release has made the game worse not better for pvp. They failed to deliver on their marketing on multiple fronts, probably the most insulting is their combo field system. No GW2 is not an example of how MMOs need gear grind to be successful, it is an example of how bad designers can ruin a brand if they are bad.

Also the accesibility barrier while different than LoL or DotA is certainly not lower. It requires more up front time investment that is not PvP related at all, but past that there is little you need to learn. While in the aforementioned games there are a hundred possible game pieces that can be dropped on the board and to be good at the game you need really need to learn how to play with, as and against every single one of them. Not to mention item choices. FFXIV takes time investment, LoL and DotA require the gathering of a lot lot more game knowledge to even start to play well.

You can't claim to be looking at the future of the game when you don't understand the difference between a P2P MMORPG and a F2P MOBA/e-sport.

MMORPG = The majority of players are here for progression and socializing.

MOBA = The majority of players are there for the fun of killing people, with no cares for progression

I certainly understand the the difference my friend. And at its core what you don't express understanding of is the difference in business model.

I have not made an argument yet that this game shouldn't have a gear grind for the financial health of itself. I've made an argument for why a true competitive player is and should be turned off by a gear grind. I honestly don't know what the best decision is for FFXIV a subscription based MMO is in a PvP area. Building in a grind that takes most people months or years to load up all the classes they want to play could make them a lot of money or the grind could result in people that wanted a competitive experience canceling their subs and going to other games. I know that besides playing PvP to get a better idea of how this system works in that environment, I won't be playing it very much or at all. I'll go to other games that offer a competitive environment without a work more time commitment. This will likely result in me canceling my sub, that is unless their PvE content continues to be worth while to play with the friends I have who also play this game. PvP won't keep me mostly cause of the required time commitment to even play at the level that the game will be designed around. I might be in the minority of FFXIV players, but I can state with certainty that MMO PVP does not need a gear grind to be successful. In this instance I'm sure these designers believe it will make more money for them or their company within this business model, and they could very well be right.

Look at any MMORPG that tried this and you'll see the PvP is completely wasted. You're asking to remove progression from a game that's all about progression.

This is wrong, GW1 is one example. But no what I'm doing is stating that FFXIV PvP makes working more - vs working harder - a greater impact than I want it to have in a competitive environment, and that this turns my desire away from playing it. Not simply because I don't have and don't want to put in that amount of time but because I also won't actually experience the potential of what this PvP has to offer till I max my gear for multiple classes. Something I'm just not willing to spend the time to do, so I won't be playing it.

Not to mention the huge player-base they'll piss off if they remove gear that people have been farming for the past week. There was already a huge s**tstorm when they changed 1 stat on 1 item, imagine what'll happen if they start taking hard-earned gear out of the game.

It is completely unrealistic to expect that FFXIV will remove its gear grind, that doesn't change the value in expressing disappointment that it has one. It provides initial feedback on how players are reacting to a newly implemented systems, and hopefully shapes the focus for how they design their PvP in the future, possibly decreases the amount of grind required to a point I or others will choose to engage in it while not removing it for the people that value working more instead of working harder. It signals to an industry that is reluctant to innovate that there is demand for a game with a MMO style that has grindless PvP, just don't suck are your job like GW2 designers.

To even suggest that the reason GW2 pvp is so bad is due to a lack of progression is mind blowing, that game failed PvP in just about every way imaginable. None of their supporting systems lent to a team environment, no class synergy, failed combo field concepting, incredibly extreme equipment options, half their traits are useless or worse, weapon swapping added little to nothing, pretty boring game mode that actively decreased the impact a single player could have and the list goes on. GW2 failed in so many aspects that laying it at the feet on a lack of progression system is just you being dishonest.

Also, I completely understand where the argument is coming from. I play basketball and I'm 6'1", which is small. I'm constantly playing against people taller than me, yet I'm happy to try harder than them to be better than them. Natural height be damned.

Great, I'm 5'6'' the equipment I've been given is wholly insufficient to play basketball without working really hard and having grown up in favorable environments. According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...iation_history there are only 3 players in the history of the NBA who are might height or shorter. Basketball is a great example of a game where equipment has very disproportionate impact from skill. If you were born tall the amount of skill you need to have impact on the game decreases pretty significantly compared to someone of my height. Even someone if your 'meer' 6'1'' has to work a lot less hard to have the same amount if impact in a game of basketball.

[Someonewithclap]

I promise, you will still lose in the gear you think you need.

PVP needs its own gear.

[Imapooonu]

I promise, you will still lose in the gear you think you need.

PVP needs its own gear.

+1 (includes 10 characters)