Nerf SMN

[Zetonegi]

Burst? What burst? Don't tell me you think that the 780 damage from Fester is good burst damage, even if it crits for 1100+ with good gear, and only if you have Bio 2, Bio and Miasma up. It lowers drastically when you are missing 1 or more. Fester with just miasma is around 300 damage. ~snip~ SMNR isn't a burst class, it never has been. Miasma is without swift cast, not easy to apply, specially not if you have a team that knows what it is doing.

Most good smns I've seen do 1.5k Enkindles along with their fester. I dunno maybe they're playing the class wrong but last I checked doing half of a DPS's HP in about a second is pretty good burst.

Once you've applied Disease, all your other dots are easy to apply unless you suck at basic kiting. Source: I apply dots as a SCH on people chasing me after applying disease.

And to those who are like you can't nerf SMN they just got nerfed!
you can nerf a class in PvP only. This is a thing the devs are capable of doing.

[xxalucard]

The only reason I bring up the fact that you are a SMN is that the only people saying it is fine are SMNs, which says a lot. I've dealt with so many blind people abusing overpowered stuff who will swear black and white that it's not overpowered over the years. Literally thousands.

You're just like them.

It's funny that your main class is gladiator yet you don't think having an instant chain stun ability that you can spam on different people to lock them down is overpowered.

PLD Chainstun is much worse than miasma, and the arguments against miasma II require basically the same close-range your shield bash does. Yet I see miasma II getting blamed as being too powerful and not the chainstunning.
People who don't play a class don't understand it, and don't know how to play against it.

If it's just the class that's overpowered then why can I consistently beat another summoner on the other team every time I'm matched against one?

How does a WHM keep me up when that summoner hits me with miasma and the dragoon is beating on me? Because he's a good healer (there aren't many of them) and knows when to holy and when to heal.

Miasma outside of swiftcast is so easily avoided that it isn't funny. How you or anyone else thinks a 2.5 second cast that diseases & heavies you is more overpowered than a 30 second sleep + instant heavy *every 30 seconds (lethargy) that BLM gets is beyond me. A BLM has access to a better control lockdown than summoner, and both are from distance and instant with only 1 swiftcast.

I wish it was a requirement for all players that complain about summoners being OP to have to make a video of their own gameplay. I guarantee you 90% or more of the people that make these complaints are doing things wrong and getting hit with avoidable spells.

/sigh

[Raenryong]

I don't play PLD in PvP.

Shield Bash requires melee range and is far less debilitating than Miasma (doesn't come with a healing debuff either..).

Err SMN vs SMN is balanced by logic, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Because the DRG isn't doing enough damage. No amount of healing in the world will keep you up through a decent one if you've got that fatal healing debuff on you.

Okay, so: to avoid Miasma you need to be within 2s of LOS at all times, noting the position of the SMN at all times, and must never attack anyone at any time. Due to this one ability, you are forced to be completely defensive. I have heard this argument so many times from so many players abusing so many overpowered classes in my time playing various games and it never ceases to make me shake my head.

Heavy on its own is far less debilitating than Heavy + Debuff.

[Syrellaris]

The only thing I see here is people crying because they can't seem to win themselfs against one certain class and immediately think we are overpowered. It is quite a shame that only the english boards are full of nerf summoner posts, yet the Japanese side all say there fine. Which tells you something about the English community in this game. I also see people immediately going defensive if a player that plays on summoner class comes in and tells you exactly how there class plays and how to defeat it, yet you still cry nerfs and go into some sort of defensive dismissal mode with "figures, your a lvl 50 anarchist" responses. It gets old, really old when you see the same type of behavior in every other mmo (and I've played a lot). Also, as soon as anyone posts such a meaningless "figures your a XX class response" your credibility goes out the window as at that point your selective reading(listening?) kicks in and you only want to read/hear what you want to and not see actual logic.

Also, I never have seen Enkindle doing 1.5k damage, not even with Spur and Rouse active. However if it does happen in pvp then yes that needs to receive a damage adjustment.

Also, Miasma has a 2.5 second cast, how is this easy applicable unless you use swiftcast. There is only 5 abilities that are easy applicable within the summoner class without swiftcast, those abilities are bio I, Energy Drain, Miasma II, Fester and bane.

Bane is not a real viable option most of the time in pvp due to the fact it needs Dots on the target to do Anything and only the following 3 - Bio I, Bio II and Miasma I. You also need to be very close to the person being Bane'd before it even spreads and thats all it does. Spread.

Fester's Damage is significantly reduced when Either Bio II and Miasma I are missing. Both skills have a 2.5 second casting time, unless using swiftcast. Fester also only works on Bio I, Bio II and Miasma I inflicted characters.

Bio I is a insta cast dot with a low damage on its own. Combined with fester it does maybe 300 damage or slightly over. Hardly game breaking with life pools of 4k of caster/dps classes, 5-6k on paladins and 8k on warriors.

Energy drain does around 300 damage or so, does nto crit and drains 280 mana give or take. It's insta cast with eather up and can be applied 3 times every 60 seconds(the same for fester and bane). Again, hardly game breaking
with our mana and health pools.

Miasma II is there for the only viable option for Summoners to catch all the players bunny hopping, running around and LoSing everything. Remove the Heavy from it and SMNRs would never catch anyone anymore as a Miasma 1 every so many minutes with swiftcast is not a viable solution. They would have to resort to there 2.5 second cast dots, which can easily be interrupted with a quick melee hit and if it does get applied the healer would only have to cast cleanse.

Lowering the Healing debuff on it, would make healers constantly heal everyone to full health without anything to worry about, like they already do most of the time. Which makes it rather funny, you claim to want to nerf healing too, yet you complain more about the healing debuff from Miasma and Miasma II.

Miasma II also has a very limited range and can be easily avoided. Maybe not in a hectic crowded fight, however seeing as most people spread out. it also suffers from LoS.

Garuda is, like i said earlier, not a viable pet in pvp. Contagion is usefull due to extending the time of dots(miasma II included) but for that dots need to land. other then that, it can very easily be line of sighted.

Titan is worthless

Which leaves us with ifrit and only due to the fact is has a stun(only 2 seconds, on a 15 second cool down i believe) and is melee range and there for does not get LoSed easily.

[Dorin]

...

Even still, SMN has too many tools available, and brings far too much utility compared to other classes.

[Rainsford]

The problem is dot removal in PVP. BLM has Disease applied and then a PLD uses STR down on them, and my precious 2.5gcd Leeches removes STR down. Same thing with a SMN: It's pretty much impossible to keep people cleansed (especially if you have a SCH using Miasma II as well).

Add a PVP skill that causes Esuna/Leeches to remove additional dots in PVP (1 for each level up to 3?) and SMN keeps its burst/etc, but now at least it can be countered.

[Nenin]

Miasma outside of swiftcast is so easily avoided that it isn't funny. How you or anyone else thinks a 2.5 second cast that diseases & heavies you is more overpowered than a 30 second sleep + instant heavy for 30 seconds (lethargy) that BLM gets is beyond me. A BLM has access to a better control lockdown than summoner, and both are from distance and instant with only 1 swiftcast.

Lethargy doesn't last 30s and it doesn't cause 40% heavy. It lasts 12s, has a 30s CD, and inflicts 20% Slow 20% Heavy. It's funny that you should complain about how hard a 2.5s cast is to get off, then in the next breath brush off the fact that Sleep is a 2.5s cast.

As a SMN you've surely been the #1 target in most games so you of all people should understand how hard it is to get off a non-Surecast/Swiftcast/Equanimity spell with pressure on you. Extrapolate that idea to a BLM when EVERY kill order is BLM>SMN>Everything Else.


Also, complaining about only 5 easily applicable spells is ridiculous. By your definition BLM have two; Scathe and Lethargy. 80% of the time Scathe does 100 potency and hits for 150-300. I'm not trying to argue that BLMs are weak, I'm pointing out the hipocrisy of your post. You berate others for moaning about SMN because they don't understand the class while proceeding to do the same for BLM.

[xxalucard]

Lethargy doesn't last 30s and it doesn't cause 40% heavy. It lasts 12s, has a 30s CD, and inflicts 20% Slow 20% Heavy. It's funny that you should complain about how hard a 2.5s cast is to get off, then in the next breath brush off the fact that Sleep is a 2.5s cast.

As a SMN you've surely been the #1 target in most games so you of all people should understand how hard it is to get off a non-Surecast/Swiftcast/Equanimity spell with pressure on you. Extrapolate that idea to a BLM when EVERY kill order is BLM>SMN>Everything Else.


Also, complaining about only 5 easily applicable spells is ridiculous. By your definition BLM have two; Scathe and Lethargy. 80% of the time Scathe does 100 potency and hits for 150-300. I'm not trying to argue that BLMs are weak, I'm pointing out the hipocrisy of your post. You berate others for moaning about SMN because they don't understand the class while proceeding to do the same for BLM.

Sorry, I meant heavy *every* 30 seconds, not *for* 30 seconds. I'll edit that part.

But unlike sleep, miasma is single target. I'm not overlooking the 2.5s cast time. I think you're intensifying it and exaggerating, because once someone is slept (AoE) they cannot cleanse themselves outside of purify. If you sleep the healer he has no way to get rid of it besides that one single ability. He cannot leeches himself while slept.

Just because it's difficult to cast leeches or any cleanse, doesn't mean it's literally impossible like it is with sleep. You can swiftcast sleep and then WHILE they are hitting purify already finish casting a second sleep that is guaranteed to get them before they can interrupt you. People come out of the gate where they can't separate in more than three directions (assuming they don't sit in the spawn), meaning your swiftcast sleep will more often than not hit at least 2 people, while miasma only hits ONE person.

With equanimity you can go nuts with sleep whereas summoner hardly gets the same kind of control advantage with miasma or any other dot. You can AoE sleep people that are already low on HP as dots still tic on them, and then flare while they are helpless to do anything if they already used purify.

Is there something I'm missing where SMN has more control than a 2.5s cast time 30s sleep that's AoE and allows a free, huge attack on the whole group?

Even still, SMN has too many tools available, and brings far too much utility compared to other classes.

Since when is there a limit to how many tools someone is allowed to have? Since when are the tools we have a new thing? How many tools do monks have?

BLM's have been happy sitting there casting fire / flare in PvE, and now that pvp comes along you want to be the utility class too? You're already a control + burst class. Two crits with the right procs and you can nearly one shot another player-- it's basic risk vs reward. And they even give you the best control utility in the game, AoE sleep.

If anyone that has been complaining in this thread would like to make a video that proves summoner is overpowered, and there was nothing their team could have done to counter him, I would really give it a chance to see their argument. But I sincerely doubt such a video will ever come (because there are ways to counter him).

[Syrellaris]

I give, go ahead and nerf it. I do however want to have the following to accompany it though.

1) Nerf the amount scholars and white mage can heal with every healing spell they have by 25% and increase the mana cost of each spell by 30%
2) Nerf BLM flare and sleep by 50%
3) remove stun abilities from paladin and warrior and marauder / gladiator.
4) remove any form of purification and raise from pvp.

[Kajuana]

Actually, I just switched from BLM to SMN. SMN beats BLM hands-down, it's not comparable in any way.
Don't try to justify that SMN is not overpowered in PVP, it is and I admit that I hopped on the bandwagon.