Updates: FFXI and FFXIV, a comparison

[DarkRain]

What i think people are missing here also is this:

The game is also a Playstation 3 platform game. So Just because right now its on the PC dosent mean that they have to make the changes to only the PC versions. Keep inmind that thay had to delay the PS3 version because the ps3 has restrictions on its template where as a PC dosent.

Also keep inmind that in 11 for the first 2 years there wasent much to do. Until RoZ came out. Hell Even Chocobos werent open until after a year and a half.

Another thing to remember is that like said the PS3 version. I am sure that SE and Playstation have an agreement in that content will be relesed on its launch of the PS3 version. This could be Airships,Chocobos,Ishgard or a new playable area or even EG content.

So to argue that there not working on the game would be fulse. Because after all it is a multi-platform game and there are 2 different works of code that need to be used to make both the ps3 version and pc work together.

Remember the difference with 11 and 14 are this

11 was built on the Playstation2 then relesed for the PC and later Xbox So restrictions to the template on the PS2 makes it easier to arange code and implement it.

14 was started on the PC where Sky is the limit. The game was rushed to market. And thus is why revamping Key core and non core systems are takeing a wile to fix. Also the revamping of the PS3 code for the game ( remember the ps3 had memory problems with the game among other things witch is why its delayed)

Now on a personal note:
People who are complaining about the process of the game are most likely what i call the "Intitalement" people. People who want EVERYTHING NOW. Rather then waiting for it and or working for it. SE knows what there doing. Sence December when i started thay have ben fixing issues every month +/- a few things here and there ( Earthquake). If Se just rushed out patchs they will end up in the same god awefull hell of a mess there in now. And have to refix what thay refixed that was rushed.

[Betelgeuzah]

Beetle, now you lost me.

"Now"? Although what you lack in understanding you make up with figuring out creative ways to mock me.

Please make up your mind.

So, which one of these sentences you failed to understand?

One says that we both lack the knowledge to know just exactly how much stuff SE has in the works in the background, nor the quality of said stuff, making any guess a shot in the dark at best.

The other says that SE has what they perceive as "overhauls" in the works in the background. And has had for months now.

So, which part of the sentences are conflicting with each other?

Or wait. Are you arguing that, since SE does not actually have anything worth showing it's quite understandable they don't implement anything and just give us vague timelines? Finally, we are on common ground!

Yeah, concepts are not worth showing, and making the concepts a reality needs time.

And when the concepts become a reality, they will be shown to us. That time seems to be "Summer 2011".

What you just said applies to every game in existence, by the way. Usually it happens before the game is released, but the principle is the exact same here. I can see why that would confuse the hell out of you, considering the service is up and all.

[Rinsui]

Nono. If you agree that SE does not have anything worth showing yet, (after so many months)
I think I can live with your awkward and convoluted way to say so.

I disagree, however, that concepts are not worth showing.
Especially when customers demand so.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

I don't get it. Are people arguing that they don't have to wait for quality? How does that make any bit of sense?

[Betelgeuzah]

Nono. If you agree that SE does not have anything worth showing yet, (after so many months)
I think I can live with your awkward and convoluted way to say so.

To be precise, they did not have anything worth showing, but now they do. Although we'll see it all this Summer, not just 1.18.

I disagree, however, that concepts are not worth showing.
Especially when customers demand so.

The problem is that what your concept is and what the features end up being like can be, and most often are two different entities. It doesn't necessarily mean worse, but at least different.

And in this industry, if your feature is different from the one you showed us during the conceptual stage, you are a liar. On top of the earlier information being pretty much useless in the current state of things.

Maybe for something smaller like a single feature within the game they can tell us more- but here they have a concept to reshape the game entirely. Yet those grand plans mean nothing if they can not meet them in practice, which is quite possible. If your feature is worse than you initially intended (due to unforeseen problems or delayed schedule), you ought to not tell your customers that. You show them what you have right there and then, and hope it will be successful. We don't need to know that it is a watered down version. It doesn't matter.

[quantumsaint]

Yeah, I do. It's been 9 months and the game is only slightly more different than it was at start.

Here are the major changes since the game's start:

SP/EXP acquisition system fixed
Quest system implemented
A few notorious monsters
A good targeting system
Minor UI tweaks
Minor balancing of monster HP and player skills
Search function for market wards and some organization

Almost every patch since January has had some delay or had to be broken down into two patches because they couldn't release it on time. "Core Programming Issue" rears its head around every other week or so. It took them 3 patches of fiddling to get the targeting system right. Every answer we get from them is a minimal "we're not currently working on X" or "we're taking a look at X".

Whooo boy, yeah, they're sure hard at work and moving fast.

You forgot some things:

Removal of population check via /sea
Removal of player collision
Removal of mob behavior
Reduction of party size

This may be the only game that gets less features over time, which I suppose is fitting for a release on the PS3. Next up on the chopping block, they're removing fatigue (yay) and physical levels (boo). What goes next? Let's axe the BS, no one is there anyways.

Not to mention the quick fixes they did.

Player: "I'm sick of fighting woodland critters all the time."
S-E: Deploying SUPER MEGA SQUIRREL.

Player: "These effects kind of blow..."
S-E: Deploying SUPER MEGA Fireball.

So it's obvious S-E is hard at work, Wolfie. Quit hating.

[Rinsui]

And in this industry, if your feature is different from the one you showed us during the conceptual stage, you are a liar. On top of the earlier information being pretty much useless in the current state of things.

Ah. Like when they announced player-run companies. Or group-crafting (wedding cakes, rocket launchers). Or when they showed a riding chocobo in the first trailer (EA 2009).

Clearly they should not have shown chocobos.
Everybody knows they take 4+ years to implement.

I'm beginning to get your point.
Go on.

[Firon]

Ah. Like when they announced player-run companies. Or group-crafting (wedding cakes, rocket launchers). Or when they showed a riding chocobo in the first trailer (EA 2009).

Clearly they should not have shown chocobos.
Everybody knows they take 4+ years to implement.

I'm beginning to get your point.
Go on.

Um... actually they never gave any game play videos of anything you said....

[Betelgeuzah]

Ah. Like when they announced player-run companies. Or group-crafting (wedding cakes, rocket launchers). Or when they showed a riding chocobo in the first trailer (EA 2009).

Clearly they should not have shown chocobos.
Everybody knows they take 4+ years to implement.

I'm beginning to get your point.
Go on.

Announcing a feature =/= showing us concepts of said feature. They did announce their current plans back in the first producer's letter in January. They didn't speak of the concepts for obvious reasons, just like they didn't speak of the concepts for companies or wedding cakes.

If you want an example of them showing a concept which ended up not working in practice, you only need to look at the early pics released in famitsu and the official site. Direction and position affecting combat? Different attacks influencing combat? Several arrow types for Archer?

I'm sure all these features looked good on paper, yet none of it works like it should in-game. Their vision and the actual implementation is like night and day.

You can announce that you are working on these features- but if you also announce how you intend these features to work in practice, more often than not it'll come back to bite you in the ass.

Developers usually do not announce new games during the conseptual stage, and if they do, they only give details and footage on concrete content. There's a reason for this. SE went back to the drawing board, because the current game just outright does not work, and now they are getting to the stage when something concrete can be shown.

[Physic]

What i think people are missing here also is this:

The game is also a Playstation 3 platform game. So Just because right now its on the PC dosent mean that they have to make the changes to only the PC versions. Keep inmind that thay had to delay the PS3 version because the ps3 has restrictions on its template where as a PC dosent.



Also keep inmind that in 11 for the first 2 years there wasent much to do. Until RoZ came out. Hell Even Chocobos werent open until after a year and a half.

Another thing to remember is that like said the PS3 version. I am sure that SE and Playstation have an agreement in that content will be relesed on its launch of the PS3 version. This could be Airships,Chocobos,Ishgard or a new playable area or even EG content.

So to argue that there not working on the game would be fulse. Because after all it is a multi-platform game and there are 2 different works of code that need to be used to make both the ps3 version and pc work together.

Remember the difference with 11 and 14 are this

11 was built on the Playstation2 then relesed for the PC and later Xbox So restrictions to the template on the PS2 makes it easier to arange code and implement it.

14 was started on the PC where Sky is the limit. The game was rushed to market. And thus is why revamping Key core and non core systems are takeing a wile to fix. Also the revamping of the PS3 code for the game ( remember the ps3 had memory problems with the game among other things witch is why its delayed)

Now on a personal note:
People who are complaining about the process of the game are most likely what i call the "Intitalement" people. People who want EVERYTHING NOW. Rather then waiting for it and or working for it. SE knows what there doing. Sence December when i started thay have ben fixing issues every month +/- a few things here and there ( Earthquake). If Se just rushed out patchs they will end up in the same god awefull hell of a mess there in now. And have to refix what thay refixed that was rushed.

FFXI in one year showed massive amounts of bug fixes/balances, the addition of northlands jueno dungeons 2 rank groupings of missions, 3 level cap increases, 5 jobs, NMs, HNMs, magic bursts, numerous items skills, mining fixes and refixes. They anounced an expansion and came out almost a year(11 months roughly) later from the original date of release, which included MANNNY new zones, 4 new jobs a whole new main storyline. All in one year, compare that to what you are talking about here. Its not in the same universe

When they switched producers the idea is that the product was going to be better or the same, using it as an excuse for not achieving enough growth is a bad idea.

Betel, what your saying about seeing nothing but they are developing, doesnt matter, because the fact is, after a year, they have told us what to expect, if everything goes as planned, we know what we will be getting, and its still way behind everything else, way behind what they did in the past, way behind what develpoers with 10 man teams achieve, way behind everything they did in FFXI.

Ok whatever happened in the past happened, but they need to step it up. Name any game that has made less progress in a year of development? They need to step it up drastically.