Thief>Ninja/Dancer Class/Job

[Nahara]

I object to the idea of Thief being a class and not a job with it's own soul crystal.

Thief is one of the most well-known and classic jobs in the whole franchise (going all the way back to FF1) and I'd hate to see it get relegated to something most people don't care about once they hit Lv30.

[Exstal]

I object to the idea of Thief being a class and not a job with it's own soul crystal.

Thief is one of the most well-known and classic jobs in the whole franchise (going all the way back to FF1) and I'd hate to see it get relegated to something most people don't care about once they hit Lv30.

FF1 Thief => Ninja

Ok.

[Nahara]

FF1 Thief => Ninja

Ok.

And? That doesn't make Paladin/Knight any more of a job than Warrior. And what about White Wizard? Does that have any right to be more of a job than White Mage?

Just because Thief graduated into Ninja in FF1 doesn't mean Thief doesn't deserve to be a job in XIV and have it's own soul crystal.

[Kitru]

And? That doesn't make Paladin/Knight any more of a job than Warrior. And what about White Wizard? Does that have any right to be more of a job than White Mage?

White Wizard doesn't exist because it's just WHM with a different name to constitute the upgraded stats/access to more powerful spells. Hell, it's still got the whole "White" portion exactly the same. It's, for all intents and purposes, the exact same archetype. Warrior exists separately from Paladin because they *are* different archetypes: Paladin always has some magical influence while Warrior never does.

Just because Thief graduated into Ninja in FF1 doesn't mean Thief doesn't deserve to be a job in XIV and have it's own soul crystal.

The reason that it doesn't "deserve" to be a job is that THF and NIN are the same exact archetype: they're the stealthy, backstabby archetype. NIN might have some minor mystical associations, but, honestly, they're really not that different.

[Neph]

The reason that it doesn't "deserve" to be a job is that THF and NIN are the same exact archetype: they're the stealthy, backstabby archetype. NIN might have some minor mystical associations, but, honestly, they're really not that different.

you've never played FFXI, have you? Most ppl that want thf back is because of how awesome they were in ffxi. Also, nin and thf were very different in ffxi.

[jomoru]

FF1 Thief => Ninja

Ok.

and FF1 Warrior becomes Paladin.

[Boots-365]

If you want thief then you would make thief a class and pugilist the secondary or vice versa the thief would do less damage directly and more drawn out damage like poison or fracture.

[Kitru]

I object to the idea of Thief being a class and not a job with it's own soul crystal.

And I object to the idea that THF has enough to differentiate itself from NIN to justify it being a job instead of a class. The entire THF schtick has always been "Steal", which, in a single player game like the FF games have historically been, was enough to make it on par with the other jobs. Of course, in those games where THF and NIN are discrete jobs, NIN is pretty much always, in some way, shape, or form, the upgraded THF (NIN has the same general stat allocation, only with better stats; NIN, in those games where classes actually do the upgrade thing, THF *always* leads into NIN). In an MMO, however, "Steal" isn't really an appreciable shtick that you could build a job upon, especially since the job abilities are meant to be secret techniques. "Steal" isn't really a secret technique; Ninja magic, on the other hand, *is*.

The classes that we've currently got are iconic enough that they need to be jobs instead of classes *and* they need to exist to provide appreciable options to cover multiple themes. BLM and WHM make sense as jobs instead of classes because jobs are the "end point" and, historically, there hasn't really been an upgrade from BLM or WHM that doesn't turn it into something with a completely different spell list (Black Wizard/White Wizard were pretty much just WHM/BLM with better stats but, even so, pretty much the same name). WAR exists as a job separate from PLD because there needs to be multiple tank classes, one of which *doesn't* have the religious overtones like the PLD and that uses a completely different weapon/combat style: WAR is the pure martial tank while PLD is the divine tank (that and the two exist as discreet archetypes within MMOs for much the same reason).

THF is iconic but it's always been something that often just gets folded up into the NIN. NIN is *just* as iconic. The difference between the two is that NIN pretty much *always* THF+, and it's consistent across most of the games. It's because of *this* that I did THF>NIN.

[Nahara]

In an MMO, however, "Steal" isn't really an appreciable shtick that you could build a job upon, especially since the job abilities are meant to be secret techniques.

You don't think thieves and pickpockets have tricks they don't share with the amateurs?

That said, "Steal" isn't the only thing Thief has going for it. I know people don't like the idea of pulling ideas from FFXI, but it can still be used as a good basis for how different Thief and Ninja can be.

In addition to Steal and Mug, they had Sneak Attack and Trick Attack, which gave THF huge burst damage potential, they had Accomplice and Collaborator to help manage a party's threat generation, with Larceny and the Aura Steal passive they could steal an enemy's buffs, and everyone knows about Treasure Hunter and Gilfinder. On top of that, THF was one of the best dagger-wielders in the game, giving them access to the best and most damaging dagger weapon skills in the game. As I said in my previous post, just because THF graduated into NIN in FF1 (and a couple of the tactics games, which I've admittedly never played), doesn't mean that it must also graduate into NIN here.

All in all, I respect your idea and think it's pretty decent (even if I'm not a fan of putting the healer into melee range). I just don't want to be a Ninja; I want to be a Thief and I don't like the idea of Thief being forced into being the base class for Ninja.

EDIT: Also, your DNC idea lacks an in-combat raise/resurrection. Healers really need to have one.