FFXIV: The 1 Job at 50 Monday night raiding 8 man FC game.

[Risae]

Opinioooooooon opinion opinion opinion!!


Do you ever have anything positive to say here???

Of course, once the games goes out of beta.

[Joygasm]

I mean... no... I don't agree with you at all. Your arguing for the short term over the long term. If the Coil didn't have a lock out, then yeah sure.... you would of course play more.... for a week. You would spam T1 over and over and over until you got the pieces you needed. Rinse repeat for T2. T4. Ect. You would do it enough to get yourself and your FC all the gear you wanted and then you would be done, with nothing to do. That is the truth of the matter. Changing the lockout doesn't change the content, it just speeds it up and the more FC members you gear up completely the less they log in anyway. Same results really just more of a cliff than a gradual slope that we have now.

That's the thing, it isn't a gradual slope. Its a tedious long road with a stop sign every several blocks.

I seriously doubt anyone has the time to finish it all up in a week. Freaks of nature sure, but I promise you, your extreme example isn't the commonplace for people who play at quicker paces. Even in the case of the people who would grind like that, RNG takes hold of their fate and also adds what I think should be the ONLY barriers.

But I digress. Coils can be justified having a lockout thus far by making the best gear something to work at over time. However, you can already purchase full myth gear in about 4 months and that'll only be speed up greatly by the myth increase and the additional way to get i90 weapons. Plus, crafted gear isn't that far behind most raiding gear when properly melded.

The problem doesn't come down to "AMAGAD WHY CANT I HAVE THE BEST GEAR ON EVERYTHING" It's simply not having enough playable content available to progress your character at all. I used to remedy this downtime leveling other jobs, and now I'm just stuck until recently when I got a FC that can support me leveling an alt. The whole paying for 1 versus 8 characters starts to make more sense now eh?

Crystal Tower, considering it's placement in the gear progression and the role it was supposed to have launch, the lock out placed on it at this point in time is an absolutely garbage artificial barrier and robs players of some serious replayability without basically getting the best gear handed to them. It also lost out on an opportunity to give incentive for people to do it outside of static groups.

It isn't a lack of trying of squeezing out what this game has to offer. I craft, I help anyone who calls upon it, I pug AK for people that need relic step finished, I'll DF primals to help there too. I'll do extreme primals for me and anyone else in my FC that needs it. I'll do Crystal Tower on multiple jobs to get a feel for them all in a raiding setting. This, however, all doesn't really lengthen the things to do over time.

I'll even give PvP a go. Hopefully that won't have crap limitations.

Editted for correction

[Pseudopsia]

..No "Coil" lockout, you can get 2 items per job per week. Same 2 chests, need/greed.

Then I could go back and ***GASP*** help people in my FC

I think this fix is way too generous to hardcore players who have unlimited time to play the game.

Problems with this fix:
- You can gear out all jobs at same rate. This causes a problem with diversity. When focusing on hard content hardcore players would be able to switch to a party setup making the content easier while causal players won't have this option. SE would need to tune content to be even harder creating a barrier to casual players.
- Gap between hardcore and casual players will become huge.
- Hardcore players will have all jobs almost completed decked out in best gear in about three months. The current FFXIV setup is we get higher level gear in every other major patch. Hardcore players will probably quit for 3 months waiting for patch with new gear.

I rather the fix be a minor change to allow repeating content for other FC members:
- No Lockout
- One item per week per player.
- Ability to choose turn where all members completed the previous content.

[Sylve]

Since they're using lock-outs to "extend" content, they could at least make the lock-outs job related. It's not like we would be able to gear up all the jobs before the next patch hits anyway due to the lock-outs.

Except that with the way the multi class system works, You would effectively be getting 8 shots at loot for your 'main' class. The only way they could let us do this, is to block us from rolling at all for gear unless it is for the Job you are inside with.

Could you imagine running Coil 8 times in one day, and every time you switched to a different class, the drop you needed most for the class you were last on, drops?

The one shot per week, per character lockout is something that all MMOs do. XIV is not unique here. It sucks for some, isn't an issue for others and most would scratch their heads at why you play more than one class.

I rather the fix be a minor change to allow repeating content for other FC members:
- No Lockout
- One item per week per player.
- Ability to choose turn where all members completed the previous content.

I would agree with this 90%. Once 'Locked' to a completed Turn, you forfeit the right to any loot whatsoever from that Turn, whether or not you got something. Otherwise, I'd just run a specific Turn all day, everyday until my specific item drops, which would essentially guarantee me a Coil drop every week for my main class.
Since CT is intended to be the 'catch-up/keep-up' tier of Item Level, the system imposed prevents you from simply ignoring all other dungeons simply because CT will easily give you superior gear. Which i do agree with.

[Joygasm]

I think this fix is way too generous to hardcore players who have unlimited time to play the game.

Problems with this fix:
- You can gear out all jobs at same rate. This causes a problem with diversity. When focusing on hard content hardcore players would be able to switch to a party setup making the content easier while causal players won't have this option. SE would need to tune content to be even harder creating a barrier to casual players.
- Gap between hardcore and casual players will become huge.
- Hardcore players will have all jobs almost completed decked out in best gear in about three months. The current FFXIV setup is we get higher level gear in every other major patch. Hardcore players will probably quit for 3 months waiting for patch with new gear.

Over time with this lockout model, that gap is going to happen with older players and newer players anyway. The gap between casual and non casual playtimes will also widen over time, no matter what the system, based on peoples effort to level and gear alternate jobs or characters. They should probably care about new players ability to catch up over casual ones since casual ones already have an innate advantage over new players just from time played.

There really is no avoiding the gaps, and there will be guilds that recruit based off those staples to make it easier to identify people that fit in with their group. IE Multiple/max jobs at current/previous tier experience/gear on alternate jobs.

Free to play? Fine, lock the crap out of those games. However, trying to dictate how much people can put into this game that you pay for on a monthly basis, and have to pay more per month to have the tools to cater to the more active players seems asinine and insulting. I really wish endgame design would of been laid out before the game launched, I wouldn't of even bothered to pick this up. We still to this day don't know if they'll ever really care about 24m content. They only recently (ie a couple weeks max) that focus on 8man will continue down the road and that was months after guilds built for 24m because of the conclusions that were at the time logically formed about the future of raiding.

Ninja Edit: I'm just expressing my feels, I empathize with people that fear not having lockouts. I recognize my view is based off my point of view only, as is everyones.

[TeaTimeBear]

Of course, once the games goes out of beta.

I really don't get you. You say nothing positive here when it concerns the game and typically have nothing more but spite to contribute typically. I think the usual thing most people do is refrain from being around something they don't enjoy. But here you are again with more pessimist bring down the house angst posts. I can't help but think of a video I watched when I see users like yourself. It was an AVGN vid, and towards the end of it he's complaining about why someone would bother replaying this (expletive) game on a higher difficulty and that you'd have to be some kinda idiot to do that. Then he turns away from the camera and resumes playing as the vid ends. Are you a masochist?? Really I wanna know because you're not happy and it shows. Yet here you are.

[Eekiki]

Lockouts are killing us SE.
I don't even want to log in aside from Monday's anymore. And it's been this way for several weeks.

You don't speak for "us". I'm sorry you aren't having fun anymore, but I'm having a blast.

Over time with this lockout model, that gap is going to happen with older players and newer players anyway.

Except that as more content is released, SE will remove the lockouts and lower the difficulty on older content, allowing new players to complete it quicker. The people complaining about lockouts are, once again, thinking that everything is set in stone and will never be changed despite the fact that Yoshi-P has stated multiple times how content progression is going to work.

[Raikki]

Gap between hardcore and casual players will become huge.

There's a more serious gap problem that already exists and is precisely due to the lockouts and caps already in place. If someone starts the game today, they're permanently months behind all the launch players and no matter how hard they play they'll never be able to catch up because everyone progresses the same amount every week. This discourages people from joining the game and drives them to other games instead. Even if they can gear one job up to 2.2-Coil level by the time 2.2 comes out, the launch players will have 2 or 3 jobs and have a serious edge in flexibility. That's why I feel like gearing up should also involve how much effort and skill you apply to the game rather than the way it is now where your gear is merely a product of how long you're subscribed.

[Velhart]

You know, it would be nice to accomplish Turn 5 with my static, then on that same week, be able to do it again with other FC members/outside FC friends, and help teach them the mechanics of the fight. Just lock out my ability to lot gear. It is funny that this is a community driven game, but the end game content the way it is set up, just influences you to find seven other people and just stick with them. I don't even really see the point of FC beyond small perks and housing if the content is set up that people are separating from one another, even within FC's. I thought Crystal Tower would be the answer to this, but even then, you can only take eight in and the other sixteen are random. What MMO seriously does this? Granted, I can go back into CT and help people get the hang of the content, but SE is confusing me on what they want to make out of this game and it's end game content.

Duty Finder is suppose to be a helpful tool if someone does not have the luxuries of having a large group of friends or don't play that much, not be a mandatory feature for using content.

[ApolloGenX]

If someone starts the game today, they're permanently months behind all the launch players and no matter how hard they play they'll never be able to catch up because everyone progresses the same amount every week.

This.. and it's why I don't even bother with myth tomes anymore. I got my chest, I don't care. This artificial hamster wheel setup is a transparent and unfun grind. You have to login to make your limit or you permanently lose out on those tomes for cap. If that happens you are behind and can never "catch up". I said forget it, I don't care. Why bother? There is only one raid zone, I've seen it.. and I have no desire to feel like I "have" to login and grind to "keep up".

The current end game model is absolutely horrible. I love the game outside of endgame. Once you get there, it implodes with lack of content and artificial barriers. It just wreaks of an unfinished game.

These lame "allowance" model setups remind me of Facebook games or candy crush, where your "chances" are given by time to force you to login periodically to try to keep you logging in... it's an incredibly lame "Play on OUR terms" model that I don't appreciate.

Don't charge me a monthly subscription and then tell me I can only play so much or get so much in a week. That makes me mad. I go on vacation for a couple of weeks and come back and have lost out on a chance to progress that I can never get back? No thanks.