Current/Upcoming War changes and current tanks, let's talk about that.

[Fallstrider]

By using cool downs before death sentence begins to cast, its possible for paladin to space bulwark, rampart, sentinel and convalescence so that they can mitigate every single death sentence indefinitely. More, most of these will carry on longer than the short 20% warrior will have. Accordingly, warrior will not have a meaningful advantage on death sentence mitigation.

How? Sorry, I just fail to see how this would be mathematically possible.

[Ryock]

Why isn't 'fun' one of the reasons you put down for why people pick warrior? That's certainly the reason I picked it up, and as far as I'm concerned is the only reason I should be required to play something. I'm not here for a competitive sports team or something after all. I'm here to have fun and enjoy my free time playing a game .

On another note though, I would argue that while neither class takes much 'skill'(what a controversial word) to play, I would argue warrior takes more based on my definition of skill. My definition of skill would be based on how long, how much thought, and how much practice does it take for the player to understand how to adapt to a situation? This may be a poor example, so forgive me. I'll come up with an in-game example shortly, here.

Person A has a gun. Person B has a sword. Both persons need to figure out how best to eliminate an enemy up to 30 feet away. Person A has a very obvious and very clear way of getting through this. Just shoot the guy. Person B on the other hand may be required to approach the enemy quietly and without being noticed. Or he may choose to throw the sword, or find something else to make his job easier. But they essentially accomplish the same goal. One happens to be a little more 'to the point' than the other, but both can accomplish the same job nearly as easily assuming they both have practice, and are proficient at what they do.

Now for an actual in-game example. I'll use WP as a dungeon example. The PLD mobs all the way up to the birds, hits Cover on the WHM and hits Hallowed Ground(this is merely an example, mind you). That's a very 'to the point' strategy, and the PLD has very little other options available to himself that don't have SOMETHING to do with protection or mitigation. All his solutions to problems are pretty much the same. Don't get hurt by the enemies.

Warrior on the other hand, to make a similar or equal pull, may be forced to think for a bit. Rather than just go straight up and start mashing Overpower, he may notice that using Bloodbath and Vengeance together, along with Infuriate, and Berserk to maintain the stacks of wrath is required in order to do the same thing, as it will help keep his health higher up and easier to maintain. Again, what I'm saying here is that imo(and mind you, you're entitled to your own opinion), skill is something that is dictated by how much time, thought, and effort it takes on the player's part to do something. Even if it's something as simple as hitting a couple more buttons or moving a certain way, etc. In the end though? Neither tank takes a whole lot of skill to learn and master imo.

[Phreak]

But an active mitigation tank takes more skill to play then a passive mitigation tank does. You cannot deny the fact that warriors have to think a lot more and react much faster then a paladin would with using their combos properly and not just spamming 123 halone combos.

<-- Both tank jobs at 50 with relics and I stand by the fact that warriors are more involving and require more attention then paladin, and will be even more apparent in the next patch.

Both classes pop something before a big hit, one has it up every 20ish seconds the other has to cycle through several options.

You could just randomly press a button on your tool belt as a PLD but you'd be bad, just like you'd be a bad warrior for using IB on CD.

A good tank is going to be putting just as much attention/involvement into what they're doing regardless of PLD/WAR and it will be a noticeable difference when compared to one that isn't.

How? Sorry, I just fail to see how this would be mathematically possible.

You could have just stopped once they put Convalescence in the same sentence as 'mitigate...death sentence'.


Why do people keep calling PLDs passive mitigation tanks when they have ONE single ability that provides passive mitigation, everything else is pro-active and to make the most use out of it requires a good understanding of boss ability timers/sequences/cycles.

A 2.1 WAR will have a much easier time running into a fight blindly than a PLD will, for sure.

[Paikis]

A 2.1 WAR will have a much easier time running into a fight blindly than a PLD will, for sure.

How do you figure?

[Leonus]

@Phreak

I don't agree with WAR being able to run in more blindly than PLD. I still believe that PLD will be the safer tank option for new encounters or to "blindly run in" as you put it. WAR will be just or close to as viable as PLD if you somewhat know the encounter. Time will tell though.

[Zer0mr]

But then we'd have nothing to do at work.

Lol, agreed. +1

[PiedPiper]

You could have just stopped once they put Convalescence in the same sentence as 'mitigate...death sentence'.


.

Convalesence basically negates the infirmity debuff, so yes, it does in many ways mitigate death sentence as long as you have the raw hp to survive the hit. Also, it ups the effect of adlo, meaning you will take less from the hit. Conv is extremely potent and often under estimated.


As to how it works out, its something like ramp - conv - bul - ramp - conv - sent - ramp - conv - bul. I more or less just do it. Reason precasting helps is it gives that much more time for fireballs and stuff to delay the DS recast or later on fire spit to givet hsoe few second you need for a cd to end. Very rarely one will come in you can't pop for, but... just SS yourself and call for virus.

[Ryock]

A 2.1 WAR will have a much easier time running into a fight blindly than a PLD will, for sure.

I sincerely and respectfully disagree. PLD can pop a cd which are off the global cd whenever he wants. A Warrior will only have Vengeance available to them to be able to do the same thing. The Warrior will be forced to think about their rotation more and their wrath since both of their mitigation skills come from setup. Inner Beast will require 5 wrath, or alternatively, Infuriate to trigger. Storm's Path is at the end of a combo. With this in mind, I would argue that the Warrior will need to think a little more about their rotation than the PLD simply because PLD can just pop the cd whenever he wants. Both classes will be required to know how the fight goes though, and have the boss' pattern down. I would just argue that PLD has more leeway with his mitigation than Warrior.

[AurickSchiffer]

So in Patch 2.1 from what I see, PLD is getting ZERO changes while every other class is?

Maybe I am wrong so maybe someone can inform me if any changes are for PLD in 2.1?

[Fallstrider]

As to how it works out, its something like ramp - conv - bul - ramp - conv - sent - ramp - conv - bul.

Sorry, but this doesn't make sense, at least not without absolute perfect timing and a fair amount of luck. Not to mention that Bulwark won't always mitigate, and Convalescence does very little on its own if you get one-shotted, or take a quick combo. Warrior WILL have a more steady source of mitigation towards Death Sentence, however whether or not it will balance up Paladin's overall better mitigation I don't know.