I hate comparing this game to FF XI because it isn't trying to be FF XI but -

[HunkyJimpjorps]

give me some gear that actually does interesting things... give me a sword that has terrible stats but has a %chance to reset the timer on a cd... something interesting to tool around with.

Why would you want to have a much harder time holding hate for the chance to maybe use a mitigation ability more often? At least suggest something reasonable.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Well, that's the reason I think his argument wasn't strong enough.

in that case I agree.. I guess I thought you were saying that leveling up jobs doesn't count as content (my mistake). I think it can be enjoyable to a point but it shouldn't be framed as he did: "level up all classes while doing the same thing over and over, that is the content this game offers".

[Lord_Zlatan]

Why would you want to have a much harder time holding hate for the chance to maybe use a mitigation ability more often? At least suggest something reasonable.

because they could always balance it with other gear that does other things.

also, you are assuming I'm only talking about PLD, but fair enough.

[Pandastirfry]

So when someone with everything leveled to 50, fully geared and whatnot complains about a similar reason, what are you going to tell them? That he or she shouldn't have rushed?

actually yes I will tell them they shouldn't have rushed if they are going to whine that they consumed content faster than the developers can create it, just as the person whining about lack of content is lambasted for shunning content "because they think it's samey or just don't want to do it". Long story short, developers are in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't situation" I they actually DO have too little content and promise a patch every X months, people will whine that the patches are coming to slow, If they add enough content to keep the majority of players occuppied, then the "Hardcores" (lord, I hate that term, gives them way too much credit), will rush through it and then well...start whining that there is not enough content for them. (and that really is the key there). Managing player expectation vs. actual development time is an unwinnable battle. Players are a venal, selfish, and insatiable lot. They'll never be happy only less whiny, for a short period of time at least, before the wailing and gnashing of teeth begins anew. Like an Oroboros of petulance

to put it simply, On one hand we have a man who has wolfed down his meal and is complaining that He has only scraps left and could not taste it, on the other we have a starving man complaining that the menu is not to his liking...

[Odd]

Im sure this has been mentioned several times here, I didn't read every post. But Wings of the Goddess came out 6-7 YEARS after ffxi launched.

Check back here in 6 years. There's gonna be a ton to do then.

[Raskbuck]

I've played enough MMOs to know this is the simple truth of our digital worlds.

I wouldn't go around claiming to know the truth of things, especially since we all have different experiences that are dyed with our personal perceptual prism. As such, I don't think pure objectivity exists; which is why I don't agree with people claiming to know how things truly work around here. Sure, we can have a vague grasp of the concept, but it's far from "the truth".

Regardless, sometimes it's not about demanding more content per se. There are times the very structure of the game (i.e: game design, fundamental directions) can have flaws in their system. In other words, it's not always about the quantity of it, but how you implement it.

agreed.

my gripe with this is this: no one is forcing you to play. If you max out, aren't having fun, don't like the people you play with, cancel your sub and stop playing.

That seems to be the most simple and pragmatic approach, but it's not always the best. It doesn't exactly remove the concerns the player in question was having, and if it's not addressed it could spread the issue even more.

[Pandastirfry]

I wouldn't go around claiming to know the truth of things, especially since we all have different experiences that are dyed with our personal perceptual prism. As such, I don't think pure objectivity exists; which is why I don't agree with people claiming to know how things truly work around here. Sure, we can have a vague grasp of the concept, but it's far from "the truth".

not claiming to know the truth of all things just this one thing. Players will ALWAYS demand more than the developers can deliver, but at the same time Developers will ALWAYS promise more than they can deliver. it's a vicious cycle. Once you quit demanding things, it becomes easier to create FEEDBACK rather than whiny complaints

[Starlord]

Personally, the game is too young atm to be saying "I know the direction this game is going in". In the first year alone, not only they need to make content but they need to smooth out the bugs and the network that surrounds FFXIV ARR. I like the fact that we as a community can say how we feel the game looks and give ideas to help improve the game.

However comparing a game that is 4 months old in any means to a game that has 11 years under it's belt is not be any means a good comparison.

[Raskbuck]

not claiming to know the truth of all things just this one thing. Players will ALWAYS demand more than the developers can deliver, but at the same time Developers will ALWAYS promise more than they can deliver. it's a vicious cycle. Once you quit demanding things, it becomes easier to create FEEDBACK rather than whiny complaints.

All I can say is, if things are always the same no matter what, we can't expect change. As such, we preserve the status quo and we cannot strive for something better. I'd like to believe necessity is the mother of invention, and nothing is set in stone. These demands, or whining, can actually be quite constructive for those willing to listen, despite their insatiable appearance.

The main problem I see is that people express their thoughts on the matter in a chaotic way, often drawing the attention of those who defend what they like with fervor. It's also known as escalating a conversation and becoming more hostile or less tolerant with each other as time passes. That can transform into making arguments not in hopes to reach a common agreement, but to destroy someone's opinion without taking the time to truly listen.

[Speeral]

Welcome to the Theme Park MMO based on models like WOW and Tera and AION, and Guild Wars . . . This is what we asked for in the poles. This is what Yoshi and team built. . .

What is the confusion?

Games like Everquest and XI with vertical and horizontal progression are a thing of the past . . . most people want clear goals and paths to those goals . . .

You will not see anything reminiscent to XI in this game in terms of content organization. Look at Crafting you cannot craft base gears and use them and a dungeon item to unlock . . . Which Yoshi and team should do to keep crafting relevant (dungeon only business is not fair to crafters).

This game as it stands is a baby and its growing we get to be on the ground floor which is kinda awesome tbh. . . .


edited to get my whole post in