This has to stop.

[Crimen]

I've seen this too many damn times.
Stop forcing people in DF to double the lengths of their runs, friends.
You want to watch cutscenes? Put up your own group in /sh in Mor'dhona with 7 other people that want the same type of run.

Hm. I disagree with this. I think that specifically in a DF dungeon run you can't demand to do a SR because you were grouped up at random. Of course in the end you can choose to do what you want.

Unless you were to join a pt from your server that specifies it's for speed-runs, you can't tell someone to skip CS, just like the person choosing to watch the Cs can't force everyone else to wait up, although if it's a healer or tank, you can only choose to wait, or leave the dungeon, but when you're grouped up at random, no one can make demands since no one chose to be in that party in specific.

[Doo]

Skipping CS isn't a speed run, it's a regular run. Speed run is more like WP.

[Lurkios]

Cs can't force everyone else to wait up, although if it's a healer or tank, you can only choose to wait, or leave the dungeon, but when you're grouped up at random, no one can make demands since no one chose to be in that party in specific.

Aye, that was positively the point of the (poor) parody. Neither one is "right", it all depends on what the majority wants to do. If everyone else wants to skip, skip graciously and if everyone else wants to watch, then watch with them or run in circles spamming air quotes until they're done - whatever it is you do. Everything the OP said, on top of being incedibly rude, was riding on the notion that DF runs were meant to move at a snails pace - which is nowhere stated.

[AvonRekaes]

While I understand that both the viewers and speedrunners feel like they should be able to do what they want without having to manually form a party, I'll just say one thing.

For CM and the Preatorium specifically, speedrunners should not expect a default duty finder speedrun, for one simple reason. These are main storyline instances, and many many many players are just people who've been following the main storyline, and had no idea they were walking into the hardcore speedrunner crowd.

At NO POINT PREVIOUS to these two instances was I EVER pressured into a speedrun, EVER. As has been pointed out, CM and the Preatorium aren't even that efficient for speedruns, like Wanderer's Palace and AK. While it even bothers me to suggest it might be okay to "expect" a speedrun from ANY duty finder instance, I understand the reality of the situation that the gear grind requires lots of hours of work so speedruns need a place somewhere, and that WP and AK are perfect places for them.

Why are people even speedrunning CM and PR anyway? From what I've been able to gather, WP and AK offer better rewards for less time. I'm not suggesting "gtfo speedrunners" for CM and PR at all, but I thought you guys were all about efficiency? Why choose the inefficient option?

[Daenerys_Sedai]

NO.

YOU.

DO.

NOT.



NO YOU DO NOT.

TO ANYONE READING, NOT ALL CUTSCENES ARE VIEWABLE AT THE INN.

Specifically for me, it was the Preatorium cutscenes between the various forms of the Ultima Weapon fight. I was bullied into skipping them and I currently have NO IDEA how I ended up fighting Lahabrea. When I went to go view them at the inn, all I had there was the cutscenes AT THE END of the quest, not the stuff DURING.

DO NOT BELIEVE SPEEDRUNNER LIES. YOU CANNOT VIEW ALL CUTSCENES AT THE INN. THEY DO NOT WATCH THEM AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

This is true. I was looking forward to seeing my WHM attack the boss (seen it in someone's sig as a BRD), but it did NOT appear in the Inn logbook.. guess I'll never get to see it

EDIT: Problem would be solved if we were able to actually watch all the CSes at the INN. This is something we, who want to pay attention to the story but do skip CSes for benefit of other party members, should push the DEVs for.

[Lurkios]

Why are people even speedrunning CM and PR anyway? From what I've been able to gather, WP and AK offer better rewards for less time. I'm not suggesting "gtfo speedrunners" for CM and PR at all, but I thought you guys were all about efficiency? Why choose the inefficient option?

I'll bring up the technical same point a few others have before I continue - skipping cutscenes is not, by any means, a speedrun. In CM and Prae it's a way of nearly doubling the pace, yes - but a speedrun is something else entirely (and those generally are down outside of DF as the gear requirements are prohibitive).

As far as why people looking to grind out some tomes choose CM/Prae, there's a few reasons.

-They want an easy fight. Neither of these dungeons require any level of effort on the part of the DPS.
-They're undergeared to the point where WP actually takes longer if the group doesn't just leave them, and AK is impossible.
-They've capped their myth for the week and want a change of scenery while they grind out tomes for their DL.
-They don't realize they wont get myth out of it yet.
-They like playing with the cannons. (guilty)

[AvonRekaes]

Good points

Alright, that seems fair. I'm still speaking from a position of ignorance, since I haven't started the tomestone grind yet (leveling up alt classes for important cross-class skills). It still just erks me that I felt pressured and anxious the entire way through the culmination of the story I was previously allowed to view at my own pace.

Personally I think if anyone says "Hi, first timer here!" everyone should, out of common courtesy, recognize that the instance is brand new to them and should make it as enjoyable an experience for them as possible. I'm not suggesting viewing the cutscenes every single time, but for first timers? If you pressure them into "going with the crowd" you are ruining their ONLY first time experience with the climax of the story. That's why we think it's so selfish. People insisting and bullying us to skip cutscenes on our first run through a dungeon are taking away from us the sense of discovery and satisfaction, and that is taken away FOREVER. We can't have a second first run.

It is literally like reading a book at your own pace and then being told you only have 2 minutes to read the last 100 pages. You're skimming through everything, seeing only bits and pieces, and you know how everything turns out, but not all of why it turned out that way. After, sure, you can go back and read it at your own pace, but now the ending has been spoiled. It's an awful way to experience a story.

[Kantide]

It is literally like reading a book at your own pace and then being told you only have 2 minutes to read the last 100 pages. You're skimming through everything, seeing only bits and pieces, and you know how everything turns out, but not all of why it turned out that way. After, sure, you can go back and read it at your own pace, but now the ending has been spoiled. It's an awful way to experience a story.

So basically when de-virginizing new people go easy, as being rough is painful. I thought everyones first time was supposed to be painful and embarrassing...

[Lurkios]

Personally I think if anyone says "Hi, first timer here!" everyone should, out of common courtesy, recognize that the instance is brand new to them and should make it as enjoyable an experience for them as possible. I'm not suggesting viewing the cutscenes every single time, but for first timers?

I understand your feelings. However, you'll come to find that there's 1-2 new folks in very nearly every single run. Should you choose not to request a skip for first timers, you're rarely, if ever, going to skip.

If you pressure them into "going with the crowd" you are ruining their ONLY first time experience with the climax of the story. That's why we think it's so selfish. People insisting and bullying us to skip cutscenes on our first run through a dungeon are taking away from us the sense of discovery and satisfaction, and that is taken away FOREVER. We can't have a second first run.

I was advised to run with my FC or with a premade for my first CM/Prae and to avoid the DF at all costs. Everything I've seen since backs that advise entirely. Arguments as to which style belongs in the DF aside, this is, by far, the best way to ensure you have an enjoyable run and conclusion to the story. Personally I highly recommend this option for all first timers.

[Rochetm]

If you join CM/TP for speed runs in DF you deserve getting the slowest people on the planet. That is your reward for being bad.