This has to stop.

[Lurkios]

Why are people even speedrunning CM and PR anyway? From what I've been able to gather, WP and AK offer better rewards for less time. I'm not suggesting "gtfo speedrunners" for CM and PR at all, but I thought you guys were all about efficiency? Why choose the inefficient option?

I'll bring up the technical same point a few others have before I continue - skipping cutscenes is not, by any means, a speedrun. In CM and Prae it's a way of nearly doubling the pace, yes - but a speedrun is something else entirely (and those generally are down outside of DF as the gear requirements are prohibitive).

As far as why people looking to grind out some tomes choose CM/Prae, there's a few reasons.

-They want an easy fight. Neither of these dungeons require any level of effort on the part of the DPS.
-They're undergeared to the point where WP actually takes longer if the group doesn't just leave them, and AK is impossible.
-They've capped their myth for the week and want a change of scenery while they grind out tomes for their DL.
-They don't realize they wont get myth out of it yet.
-They like playing with the cannons. (guilty)

[AvonRekaes]

Good points

Alright, that seems fair. I'm still speaking from a position of ignorance, since I haven't started the tomestone grind yet (leveling up alt classes for important cross-class skills). It still just erks me that I felt pressured and anxious the entire way through the culmination of the story I was previously allowed to view at my own pace.

Personally I think if anyone says "Hi, first timer here!" everyone should, out of common courtesy, recognize that the instance is brand new to them and should make it as enjoyable an experience for them as possible. I'm not suggesting viewing the cutscenes every single time, but for first timers? If you pressure them into "going with the crowd" you are ruining their ONLY first time experience with the climax of the story. That's why we think it's so selfish. People insisting and bullying us to skip cutscenes on our first run through a dungeon are taking away from us the sense of discovery and satisfaction, and that is taken away FOREVER. We can't have a second first run.

It is literally like reading a book at your own pace and then being told you only have 2 minutes to read the last 100 pages. You're skimming through everything, seeing only bits and pieces, and you know how everything turns out, but not all of why it turned out that way. After, sure, you can go back and read it at your own pace, but now the ending has been spoiled. It's an awful way to experience a story.

[Kantide]

It is literally like reading a book at your own pace and then being told you only have 2 minutes to read the last 100 pages. You're skimming through everything, seeing only bits and pieces, and you know how everything turns out, but not all of why it turned out that way. After, sure, you can go back and read it at your own pace, but now the ending has been spoiled. It's an awful way to experience a story.

So basically when de-virginizing new people go easy, as being rough is painful. I thought everyones first time was supposed to be painful and embarrassing...

[Lurkios]

Personally I think if anyone says "Hi, first timer here!" everyone should, out of common courtesy, recognize that the instance is brand new to them and should make it as enjoyable an experience for them as possible. I'm not suggesting viewing the cutscenes every single time, but for first timers?

I understand your feelings. However, you'll come to find that there's 1-2 new folks in very nearly every single run. Should you choose not to request a skip for first timers, you're rarely, if ever, going to skip.

If you pressure them into "going with the crowd" you are ruining their ONLY first time experience with the climax of the story. That's why we think it's so selfish. People insisting and bullying us to skip cutscenes on our first run through a dungeon are taking away from us the sense of discovery and satisfaction, and that is taken away FOREVER. We can't have a second first run.

I was advised to run with my FC or with a premade for my first CM/Prae and to avoid the DF at all costs. Everything I've seen since backs that advise entirely. Arguments as to which style belongs in the DF aside, this is, by far, the best way to ensure you have an enjoyable run and conclusion to the story. Personally I highly recommend this option for all first timers.

[AvonRekaes]

I understand your feelings. However, you'll come to find that there's 1-2 new folks in very nearly every single run. Should you choose not to request a skip for first timers, you're rarely, if ever, going to skip.

I guess this is another good point based on information I don't have yet. Stop being so reasonable! :P

I was advised to run with my FC or with a premade for my first CM/Prae and to avoid the DF at all costs. Everything I've seen since backs that advise entirely. Arguments as to which style belongs in the DF aside, this is, by far, the best way to ensure you have an enjoyable run and conclusion to the story. Personally I highly recommend this option for all first timers.

However, now that I think about it, this isn't a good point. You see, for the casual crowd, FCs are for hardcores. You can experience 99.99999% of the main story casually at your own pace, alone except for the dungeons, but then you should just have magically known to join a guild so you can enjoy that last fraction of a percent of the story? How?

[Kailea_Nagisa]

I understand your feelings. However, you'll come to find that there's 1-2 new folks in very nearly every single run. Should you choose not to request a skip for first timers, you're rarely, if ever, going to skip..

I have and still will, if someone is new, and they want to watch the CS, then I say nothing, same goes for me, I will watch a NEW cut scene, I will not watch it in the INN, that is for REWATCHING them later........

You want speed runs, make your own group, DF is not for speed runs -.- If your just in a hurry, then don't do a dungeon to begin with, wait till later when you have more time.

[Rochetm]

If you join CM/TP for speed runs in DF you deserve getting the slowest people on the planet. That is your reward for being bad.

[Gurpsmeister]

If you join CM/TP for speed runs in DF you deserve getting the slowest people on the planet. That is your reward for being bad.

Also this! Very much this, Speed run with people you know A: Want to speed run, B: Can. If you're queing in DF for speed run, you're failboat.

[Beeraga]

There are a lot of really cool people in this games community, but for whatever reason there sure are a lot of jerks in DF. Can't really even say its anonymity as a Garuda run I was on got trolled by a WHM from my server, and so they got blacklisted after everyone quit because of them. I kind of wish SE would actually slow down in making new content so that the GOTTA GO NOW A.D.D. types quit the game because they are a pox. Between raging over CSs as developed, to raging about people not knowing a fight the first ever time they do it and suggesting they should have watched it on youtube or something first, its like, is this a game or a driving simulator where you really just get on a monorail and sit hoping no one coughs on you?

[Gurpsmeister]

My thoughts on this are simple. I'll watch them when I damn well wana watch them. If it's my first time through something, that means I'm going to watch them THEN. If that means everyone else doing their "Speed Run" goes on without me or waits, than that's the way it is. Thankfully this stuff should be minimized with the new party finder.