Please bring back the DoH/DoL vision of 1.0

[Kittra]

I sort of miss the whole idea of FFXIV 1.0 where your starting class could either be a DoW/DoM or you could experience the game solely as a DoL/DoH class starting out. I know there is still the option at level 15 to take up any class, but instead of the idea of crafting/gathering classes being main classes, they now feel more like side projects that don't have as much of an impact like they once did.

I used to know people who were master crafters, had to work hard to get to 50 and they could do things that no fighting class or casual crafter could dream of. I know people who would never play FFXIV because they do not enjoy end-game fights and dungeons, but who would like nothing more than to spend time working on a craft and socialize with others and feel valued and necessary in the scheme of things.

Agreed, in 1.0-1.23 it was awesome that you had a choice of how you started out playing the game or what roll you would play.

Crafting in the previous version of the game was absolutely necessary to progression and, as such, had a huge impact on the game's economy and how the game was driven. I knew many people who did nothing but craft and took pleasure in the fact that they could be a central pillar for their linkshell or group while playing an important roll as a whole.

Very little was actually handed to you in 1.0-1.23, you either made it or spent a good time fighting for it, which lead to tighter bonds between people in the community because the more people you had a bond with the faster you could progress. This also led to your character having value in the game as well if you were a Discipline of War as the most highly valued craftable items dropped off of monsters or in dungeons that crafters themselves had no hope of obtaining without help.

Originally, Final Fantasy XIV's direction was pointed towards a future where crafters, gatherers, and battle classes would all participate in content designed around the idea of mutual cooperation. They achieved that partially with how the game's economy was driven and, unfortunately, tried to fulfill it in full with the addition of Hamlet Defense.

On paper, the concept was such that, it tickled the imagination of "what could be" for the future of MMOs. In the end though, we received a poorly thought out, poorly implemented time-sink which frustrated, rather than enhanced the game play experience. When I heard about hamlet, I was extremely excited that finally we would get what was promised when we'd first heard about Final Fantasy XIV's development. When implemented, we discovered that, while Discipline of the Hand/Land could participate, it was so boring, that towards the end of the first 15 minute run, crafters and gatherer would be bordering on insanity. Equally frustrating was the fact that Disciplines of War were completely and totally useless unless you were a tank or healer, DPS jobs need not apply to this line of work. The only sane way to do hamlet was to focus on beefing up the defending NPCs which led to extremely long, boring fights (sitting matches ), and placed huge requirements on crafters to hit that perfect score which would result in the items that you were hunting for dropping 100% of the time... maybe.

Hamlet was so hard for Discipline of War that SE put an achievement in the game (one I believe no one ever achieved) that you could only obtain by beating hamlet with 8 battle classes present and no crafters (literally impossible...).


I would be extremely happy if we could see the usefulness of Crafters/Gatherers return in future patches, but with the direction SE has laid out so far, it looks like they're on the way to obscurity if not already there.

[Felis]

Hamlet Defence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXfN4OstmoM
Optimal party setting for Hamlet defense: 1 Tank, 2 Healer, 3 DoH, 2 DoL

Hamlet was so hard for Discipline of War that SE put an achievement in the game (one I believe no one ever achieved) that you could only obtain by beating hamlet with 8 battle classes present and no crafters (literally impossible...).

Impossible? no.
I got them with Hamlet Defence level 1
Doing Hamlet Defence with only DoL and DoH (no DoW and no DoM) was much harder

Sure, you would not got enough points for the golden chest, maybe enough for the bronze chest. But for the achievement all what was needed was killing the boss.

[Akubikumo]

I hear ya OP! I think what was so genius about 1.0's vision is that it accounted for all types of play styles and attempted to give everyone a place to shine. Players could really specialize and create their own meaningful (and useful!) niche, it was really quite brilliant! I'm sorry but the old, whacky, weirdo, free-for-all class system was really quite fun! But now the game is practically fascist: You MUST play it a certain way based on (what I assume are) Yoshi's personal gaming preferences. Tanaka may have flown too close to the sun with 1.0 but his vision was spot on. I just wish Yoshi would stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Matsume]

Yeah, I forgot to mention this. The original concept of PVP was we were going to craft airships to fight each other. I think this was a concept way before 1.0 was even released and then kind of disappeared.

I was also really looking forward to that, too.

I don't expect every concept to come to fruition, but it just seems they are taking away a lot more than they are adding. ;_;

LOLWAT no. Never. PvP and airships never had anything to do with each other at any point in time. Yes, there will be basements in housing, and yes we will eventually be able to craft airships and boats and such in the basement of our houses. There will indeed be PvP, matter of fact it's comming in 2 weeks alongside housing. However, the "original concept" -excuse me??- for PvP was NEVER going to involve mid air fights in airships. There will be 2 forms of PvP: Frontlines, and Wolves Den. Please look forward to it?

[Ksenia]

What makes me sad is so many good concepts from 1.0 and XI thrown away because Yoshida simply don't like them.

I've been parroting that since Beta. ARR is not a new FF14. It's anti 1.00 FF14. Crafting really screams this out. Crafting has always been the optimal conduit for RMT and it is in FF14 as well. The thing that bothers me is, Square gave up. They took the entire system, threw it in the corner and covered it up with a pretty blanket.

Still, I'd be content with it until they find a version they feel secure with. If they would only reduce shard grind and add a Philo mats option outside dungeons. It then becomes an alternative gear system to dungeons, the way it should have been.

[Quesse]

The best thing about 1.0's vision for Crafting and Gathering was that they were given classes equal with 'fighting' DoM/W classes. To me, this was an indication that there would be equivalent content available for crafting and gathering just as for DoM/W classes. Quests, storyline, relics, AF, missions, guilds, etc. I believe that was the original intent. The materia system seemed to cement DoH/L supremacy as melded gear was awesome.

Sadly Yoshi-P has decided to throw this vision in the trash can. DoH/L are now sideline classes with no hope of being useful besides crafting some trinkets for your house. The equipment they are 'allowed' to craft will always be 1-2 steps behind. Materia will always be stat capped (gimped). Gatherers will never be able to provide the most useful material for crafting - no that is left for DoW/M classes from tomes (!?!?! how does this even make sense)

Its unfortunate because FFXIV could attract a lot of players with a solidly useful crafting and gathering system. Add onto that quests and missions that intertwine with DoW/M - think instances for DoH/L - and people would be clamoring to play.

RMT abuse of crafting and gathering is not the player's fault! Don't gimp DoH/L because you (the SE team) is not smart enough to make it work! Fix it!

[Suellen]

The more I see threads like this the more I cry inside. When FFXIV first came out I liked the game I saw the potential and the potential was in things just like this. But all the theme-park kiddies kicked and screamed. The day I saw Yoshi-P's first letter and SE's intent to reinvent the game so that the kids could get their cotton candy was the day I knew this potential was dead. Not just in FFXIV but in the MMO genre as a whole. I've come to accept it and find ways to enjoy FFXIV anew. But the flavor of MMO that I truly love is dead. I'm in the minority and not a big enough one to allow companies to make the profits they need for these games to survive I guess. /sigh off to cry in my ice cream.

[Alhanelem]

Very true, I don't understand why we can craft the best gear in the game. That is so cool! Make materials drop from Coil so crafters have to use it. That way it would essentially be the same thing but at least crafters would be involved. Don't let this system go to waste!

You can't craft the best gear in the game because then there would be no point to having the not the best gear in the game drop from the hardest dungeon in the game.

You can craft gear that is very good and will help people with clearing that content to get the best gear in the game. That's the way it should be and is (close) to how it is.

[Ranzan]

Everything for crafting would had been fine for crafter if darklight didnt exist or share the same iLVL as the best gear a crafter can make. Sad thing is crafting now have no purpose really. Which makes me sad...

[indira]

forget hamlet that thing sucked so bad only reson people did it was for the relic weapons item, they should work on something new thats PvP like a big battleground.

example only: gw2 world vs world you could buy things to knock down buildings, FFXIV could use DoH to fix things and build tools like batterrams, DoL could go out and salvage the opponents broken buildings,tools bring it back for use.