Coil mode for main story

[Sunarie]

While I can't fault anyone for wanting to see the story, think of it this way. If you mainly play the game for the story, and there was an easy mode for BC, then what is to keep you playing? I personally like always having that next story bit that you actually have to work towards. The story is the reward! People who want story (like myself) have to work for it, just like the people who want gear. I don't see a distinction between the two. When you finally clear that dungeon that you've been working towards and get that next bit of story, it's actually satisfying, rather than just going autopilot through and essentially just watching a movie.

I mentioned this earlier, but usually folks that are wrapped up in lore and story don't actually like to raid (if you truly like getting into lore and story, then you're one of the rare ones.. I know a few others but they're few and far between). It's not their environment, and not something they actually find enjoyable. So the story being the driving factor behind raiding doesn't work with most folks I've encountered. It's a different group of people and a completely different play style. Doesn't make it wrong or anything.

They aren't asking for the difficulty of actual Coil to be reduced, they're looking for a story mode. They don't want the gear, or achievements, just want to see their character in the story. Keep in mind, what is faceroll easy for you or I (and I'm not calling Coil that, my FC is still not past Turn 4), is extremely difficult for some others. Some people can try as much as they want and still won't be capable of downing a boss. While I learn my class almost instantly as I level, and then refine it through research, some people don't have the time to do that, or the ability to learn as quickly from what they look up. There was a thread about a Warrior on a Korean server in WoW posted here a while back that covered that exact thing. He was just a slow learner.

No, not everyone should have the best gear in the game. That's a reward for the most challenging fights. There are achievements for those as well that show you've downed the hardest content. I do not see any harm, however, in making a dungeon to see the story. Unless you're arguing we don't get enough exclusives as it is when completing top end raids by literally being the strongest characters in the game (best gear, and highly skilled).

I don't really care to be a part of some elitist group who thinks they're better than everyone, and should have everything end game exclusive to them. I want a reward for completing the most difficult content, and I realize most raiders want something to set them apart from others.. that's where the gear and achievements come in.

Edited to add: Also, completing the main story typically doesn't signal completion for the lore crowd. Usually they're leveling other characters to see stories from different points, or actually exploring the world to find neat little easter eggs and areas. FFXIV doesn't provide much of that.. but I have seen the lore folks stick with games (without raiding at all) for much longer than the raid crowd. I have a hard time believing seeing the rest of the main story would cause anyone to actually quit unless they were already bored of the game and that was truly the only goal they had left.

[AvonRekaes]

Coil is endgame content story or not and at the END OF A GAME (for the moment) things are suppose to be HARD.

Full disclosure, I have not reached endgame in any MMO yet, so this may not be a real issue. For me, I don't care how hard Coil is. What I may or may not have an issue with is the grind in order to challenge it. I am not looking forward to having to run through the same dungeons several times week after week after week just so I can attempt a hard dungeon.

I have no problem if the only thing keeping me from seeing Coil's story is my own skill. I do have a problem if it's massive amounts of tedious gear grinding. That is not fun to me, as it might be to others. It could be all in my head, maybe you can get your gear for Coil after only a week of grinding a few dungeons. But it doesn't sound like it.

[Sunarie]

snip

You could potentially get your gear within a week.. but it wouldn't be after just a "few" dungeons. Full set of Dark Light (we're not counting your relic weapon here) runs you a little over 3500 tomes of philosophy. You get 100 tomes per run. So approximately 35 runs for full Dark Light. You could have someone craft a HQ of the crafted sets and full meld it, but that can get spendy and still requires about the same number of philosophy tomes in the end, maybe a little less. Unless you buy the finished crafted piece anyway.. those usually go for a good chunk of cash (at least 800k least I looked, usually more around the 1mil or more mark). You'll also need your relic, so 900 more philosophy there.

If you're pugging it, going by shouts I've seen.. you'll probably need full DL and/or the HQ crafted and melded set to be allowed into the group at all. Some also require some pieces of mythology gear and a +1 relic, which if you're running WP or AK for the philosophy tomes, you hopefully have enough to get a piece or two there. The cost is around the same, but WP nets only 30 tomes of mythology, and AK nets 40 tomes. It also caps at 300 every week (up to 450 with 2.1).. so it'll take a minimum of a few weeks to be able to pug with groups requiring that stuff. Philo has no weekly cap.

Not trying to push it on you or say it doesn't require time, it definitely does. Just trying to give you an idea of just how much time it takes

[TrystWildkey]

Ok, a few things I want to talk about.

First: It doesn't always get easier through gear. Personal reaction time and hand-eye coordination are involved. If someone has reached the peak of their reaction time, and coordination, but still can't manage to consistently perform, then what are they to do? I know that I don't have the fastest reaction time, it takes me a very long time to figure out patterns and to reinforce my own patterns through muscle memory. It's a human limitation that I have. To tell me to 'just get better' or 'lol, learn to play' is not helpful. Gear might be able to save me occasionally, but it won't be able to carry me if I'm not reacting fast enough.

Second: Someone mentioned buying Titan hard mode runs, or letting the FC carry the player. I want to state that I do not expect, nor do I want, to be carried. I want to learn and I want support. This is why my husband usually comes as the whm for when I run new dungeons. He has a much faster reaction time than I do, is in the same room with me, and can support me when he knows I'm overwhelmed. That's the only kind of 'carrying' I want, support from a more skilled player. Personally, I think it's wrong to buy Titan runs or any other runs. It encourages people to not learn their job.

Third: Yeah, the 'learn your job' crowd. What do you think we're doing for 50 levels? Just hitting 1,1,1,1 or whatever lights up? No, most people that are 'casual' players but want to enjoy the game are trying to learn their job. I read threads here, read articles at other sites, watch dungeon videos for boss mechanics, and I try to learn my job as well as I can without spoiling the story. I'm just not very fast at it.

I'm a great book-learner, I love to learn new things. I have difficulties with muscle memory, coordination and pattern recognition. I know that I have these weaknesses, that's why I try to pick and choose my video games wisely. I'm looking for challenges, but challenges that are still within the upper limits of my skills.

FFXIV 1.0 fit perfectly into my standards for video games. Then came 1.23, and it was still within my limits, so I was happy. I got sucked into the fantastic story they spun, which is a highlight of final fantasy games. Then 2.0 came around and the game was just a bit too fast paced for me. Just a bit. And I've only made it up to Stone Vigil in the main storyline. I managed to finish that on my first try, but again, I had my husband there to prop me up when I needed just that little bit of support. In fact, the final boss had just a sliver of health when I died, the other dps's died, and my husband managed the kill with a Stone 2. Was I carried through that dungeon? No. But I was supported.

Do I want to be carried through content? No, I just want a little support when I reach the limits of my skill level.
Do I want an easy mode Coil? Yes! An honest evaluation of my playing skill means that I will have a hard time beating Coil.
Do I want ANY rewards for an easy mode Coil? NO! If it's easy mode, I didn't do anything that deserves a reward.
Would an easy mode Coil with no rewards affect anyone else? Uh, I can't see how it would, and I don't understand why so many people are against it.

Think about it, an easy mode coil could even serve as a training ground for the hard mode. Then you'll have a pool of players that only require some support from you to make it through hard mode instead of being carried. Will they NOT want to play hard mode since they've already seen the story? I doubt it, they'll feel more prepared and confident and WANT to try the harder challenge, without feeling like they're dragging down a party, and without feeling like a failure if the party fails.

tl;dr - I don't want to buy a win or be carried on anything - What makes you think I'm not learning my job or gearing my character? - Everyone has a limit to their skill in video games and may not be ABLE to reach the level required to beat Coil - How does an easy mode without rewards affect you?

[Faedden]

Snip.

Sorry sir but that's how mmorpgs work. Usually they have more options than on here to get gear but it still has some sort of grindy feeling to it. Not to mention Crystal Tower was suppose to help people get sorta geared for Coil I believe. But in general, that's how mmos work. Asking for a nerf or easy mode because you don't want to gear up for it is absurd.

Personal reaction time and hand-eye coordination are involved. If someone has reached the peak of their reaction time, and coordination, but still can't manage to consistently perform, then what are they to do?

Then this isn't the game for them? I mean the GCD on here is the longest I've seen in any mmorpg. Not everyone can be "winners" somethings people just aren't good at. It's life. It's a lot of things that I know I'm not good at, at all. But I wouldn't attempt to do it knowing I'm not good at it, fail at it, and then ask it to be made easier for me. I would keep trying. Then if it's something I just simply can not do. I would move on too something else.

[TrystWildkey]

Then this isn't the game for them? I mean the GCD on here is the longest I've seen in any mmorpg. Not everyone can be "winners" somethings people just aren't good at. It's life. It's a lot of things that I know I'm not good at, at all. But I wouldn't attempt to do it knowing I'm not good at it, fail at it, and then ask it to be made easier for me. I would keep trying. Then if it's something I just simply can not do. I would move on too something else.

I'll state this again so it is clear to everyone: If FFXIV was initially released as it is now, I would NOT have played it.

I think you keep missing the following point: 1.0 and 1.23 were perfect for me. SE roped me in to their story and I want to see the rest of it. That's why I am asking for an easy or story mode.

[AvonRekaes]

Sorry sir but that's how mmorpgs work.

Except that's how it works... only for the endgame. For levels 1-50, I've been having non-grindy fun, experiencing a story and exploring the world of Eorzea and enjoying every minute of my time there. To expect me to suddenly switch play styles to a grind-fest is to expect me to play a completely different game than I've been playing for 2 months. I realize there needs to be the grind to keep the long-term investors like yourself interested in the game. But to me, the grindfest is just a Skinner box. Skinner boxes are uninteresting.

[Sunarie]

Then this isn't the game for them? I mean the GCD on here is the longest I've seen in any mmorpg.

GCD doesn't really have anything to do with reaction time and hand-eye coordination during boss fights. I believe Tryst is speaking about getting out of boss AOEs and the like, dodging mechanics.

Anyway.. you failed to give a reason a story mode dungeon couldn't be introduced. Other than saying it makes it "easier" for someone, when in fact if someone isn't as skilled, it will likely be just as difficult for them to complete an easier version of the raid as it is for a skilled person to beat the harder version. So the difficulty is more tuned to the individual. Unless you think the story, gear, and achievements should all just be reserved for the folks that beat the hardest content. I personally don't think story falls into that category, as usually the crowd following the story is not the same crowd that hardcore raids. Two totally different audiences, playing the game for entirely different reasons, and with completely different views on what is fun. Shouldn't really be locking content that is the main appeal for the non-raid crowd, behind a raid wall.

This isn't asking for the same level gear, or the achievements.. it's only asking to be able to be immersed in the story, and be able to see it.

[AvonRekaes]

Just trying to give you an idea of just how much time it takes

Thank you Sunarie, I appreciate the summary Although I don't know what all of it meant, I probably will in time. >_>;

[Sunarie]

Thank you Sunarie, I appreciate the summary Although I don't know what all of it meant, I probably will in time. >_>;

Not a problem. It basically means you're running one of four dungeons (or three, I don't think people really run Prae outside of the story) 45ish times total to get full DL plus a relic weapon that you'd need to do Coil. If you're also going for the mythology pieces, you're limited to two dungeons. The quickest runs take about 10 minutes, that is if you're speed running.

Edited to add: I really hate the crowd that likes to tell people how they should play an MMO. The greatest thing about the genre is it's potential, and ability, to attract a number of different types of players. I have always been amazed at the number of ways people find to enjoy the games, and hate seeing it reduced to "if you don't play x way, you shouldn't be playing this MMO".. since when was it their job to decide that, or decide what an MMO should mean, or play like, or appeal to. /endrant