You can't get into Coil cause they are looking for experienced players only?

[Hanemakikaze]

There are far less tolerant people towards new players for dungeons and far more players with a bad attitudes from my experience, which is what brings about this even more retarded mindset of lying to get things done. Blame the community.

[ispano]

There are far less tolerant people towards new players for dungeons and far more players with a bad attitudes from my experience, which is what brings about this even more retarded mindset of lying to get things done. Blame the community.

Regardless of people being that way, which I do disagree with of course, the person lying is at fault, always.

[HoroBoro]

Alcyon/ispano - just throwing it out there, but have either of you ever joined a competitive sports team or worked in sales/retail/wall street?

Want to know if troll or just naive.

[ispano]

I don't do sports, but I have done Sales/Retail. And I despised every minute of it. And in any case, why?

[HoroBoro]

Ok... So you kinda know that the real world doesn't work as clean as we all want it to. Why are you arguing that people should never lie again?

Naive troll confirmed?

[Axidrain]

join an fc.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Alcyon/ispano - just throwing it out there, but have either of you ever joined a competitive sports team or worked in sales/retail/wall street?

Want to know if troll or just naive.

I did sports when I was younger, I lived in the Carribeans and did some sailing regatta (from windsurf to much larger boats with ~10 crew). Never won any though, eternal second A bit of skiing in France, too, though I didn't go really far. Sports team in school (basket), and extra (tennis, judo), didn't go far either. Always liked competition though.

As for sales, yup, a few years ago; my longest experience was as floor manager at Esprit (clothing brand). We made a point to be honest with customers (corporate culture there) as in the long run it would make them come back much more than if we sold them the wrong product for their taste/body shape (especially female pants, gosh is it hard to find the right pair of pants!), exchanging damaged products without a second thought, no questions asked, etc.

And I like to think I'm not naive, I'm a trained sociologist with a few psychology/economy courses on the side, you know. Today my main field of work is in politics—now that is a field in which fair-play just doesn't exist.

It's just that the world and its people are nowhere near as bad as some of you would like to think. This line of thinking is often a way to justify one's own behaviour, but I'm sorry, it just doesn't hold water, aside from some fields of work as I mentioned. I'd wager Wall Street and finance, where 25% of workers claim that "you have to be dishonest to make a living", would be quite comparable. Which might be the whole problem of politics and finance to begin with, don't you think? Do we really want that in our games?! Is it even remotely justifiable, let alone desirable?… But I digress, don't I.

Ok... So you kinda know that the real world doesn't work as clean as we all want it to. Why are you arguing that people should never lie again?

Naive troll confirmed?

If I had to say only one thing: lying isn't a way to form truthful and lasting relationships. And MMO's are all about the social. If you can't form lasting relationships in such a game, you'll be miserably alone. And that's the worst way to enjoy such games, as all team-based games and sports, for that matter. You lie when you think it gives you an immediate benefit, but it's a narrow-minded perspective that won't get you far, in games, or in life (most of the time) for that matter. It's not even about morals, it's about being able to actually connect with people. But this generation seems to see others as consumable products, and that might be a problem we're just barely touching here in games.

Food for thought: https://www.ted.com/talks/sherry_tur..._together.html

And a quote from Gandhi: “Be the change you want to see in the world.”

[Mishakai]

I blame the forums.

All anyone has to do is spend a little bit of time here and they will become convinced that the community is full of jerks. Every D.F. run involves racial slurs tossed at someone, nobody tolerates new people even though they were once new etc.. Hell, I'm sure I've contributed to this myself; though recent events in the realm we call the real world have made me take a pause..

Anyway..

Be honest people. If someone is shouting for an experienced player, don't say you are if that isn't the truth. They have a specific goal in mind, and lying to get in the group won't work out well for anyone involved. Go for the groups where the shout is "We're going for broke and wanna learn!". I've seen these on my servers, and participated in a couple. They can be a hoot. Start your own group, all you need to do is be all "Looking for Members.. Blah Blah.. 1/8".. It'll take off.

[HoroBoro]

And I'm not saying that the majority of the world is bad. I'm just saying that we don't understand each others' circumstances which leads to grief and loss.

I mean seriously, you're expecting online gamers to hold up to the spirit of fair play, when, Lance Armstrong, a guy who went though the hell that is cancer couldn't do it?

Don't you think you're expecting a bit much? Don't you think it's a bit biased towards the haves as opposed to the have-nots?

Sometimes you troll unintentionally. I do it all the time.

Also I'm not saying lying is good or some absurd generalization like that. When you are in a relationship with others, you need to keep the lies at a minimum. That's how you build trust. Lying is a tool that you use. It's inherently dangerous to the well being of others (as well as yourself) and you should use it as only a tool of last resort but it is not inherently evil.

There are things that you can never, ever say or admit. For example like in Israel, none of the Jewish people there can ever say: Oh hay guyz - we kicked out the Muslims that were here and now we can't give them the land back because we already settled here. If they admit that, Israel will cease to exist as a nation. Imagine Israel as a Muslim majority state. Will make the current situation seem like a cakewalk.

Yet that's the power the truth has. Only those in a position of power can enjoy it.

And you know Gandhi was a big fan of the caste system that is the source of all of India's problems currently right?

[ispano]

Ok... So you kinda know that the real world doesn't work as clean as we all want it to. Why are you arguing that people should never lie again?

Naive troll confirmed?

Firstly, i'm no troll. Secondly, people here are trying to validate people lying in this thread, and in others. Then they say the blame is on the rude and whatnot people in DF and such. Lying is still on you. It's still your fault. Regardless of what someone else has said or done. It's their fault for being abusive, it's NOT their fault that you use it as an excuse to lie.

I know how bad the world can be. I also know that people who blame their shortcomings on others are just as bad.