You can't get into Coil cause they are looking for experienced players only?

[Rochetm]

t1 is fine without voip but you can't be dumb. t2 would be a nightmare to learn without voice and even then it would be hard for healers to be doing things other than making sure people are not dead. t4/t5 good luck with no voice chat.

[Shioban]

t1 is fine without voip but you can't be dumb. t2 would be a nightmare to learn without voice and even then it would be hard for healers to be doing things other than making sure people are not dead. t4/t5 good luck with no voice chat.

This is the point my friend brought up on me actually.

Learning is easier with VoIP.

Once you actually know how to do Turns 1-5 its actually quite alright (depending on your job). Our Paladin who knew Turns 1-5 like the back of his hand was able to do it without VoIP one night due to connection issues.



I should have made that clearer earlier, I was thinking of all of this from a 'learning' point of view not a veterans one.

[Kirschey]

This thread is hilarious.
I am completely flabbergasted that anyone would think it's okay to lie, much less it's the people who whine and complain about people being meanies lol

I have leveled several combat classes to 50, and just playing around on a another, I DF almost all of the content before Titan and I have never come across anyone who has left an instance when someone says they're new. Far more often, however, I'll see the "someone here is new message" ask if everyone knows how to run said dungeon and be met with silence and then watch that person die multiple times to mechanics they didn't know were coming. Most people who claim "omg game so full of elitist meanies i cant get groups!" probably had a couple people in different parties be jerks about them being new/inexperienced, but I find it hard to believe the claim of 'the vast majority are like this'

On another note, when doing coil my group took in a player who was 100% inexperienced with every turn. He didn't lie to us, he told us straight up. We explained each mechanic, and sure he messed up a few times but didn't we all at some point or another? We consistently clear 1-4, are working on t5, and have made that new guy static. Having a static with an instance like coil where the lockout is weekly, is the fastest way to get gear from it, you aren't going to find a group like that by lying your way in.

I think people need to stop living in their fear bubble that everyone is out to get them.

[Umero]

telling a lie means dishonesty; be it light or heavy.

I thought that's common sense... or have the world changed so much already? lol

[Ri_ri]

When we advertise we're looking for an experienced group, its usually because we're on a limited amount of time and need to get it done quickly, sometimes we simply don't have the time to teach someone how to do Turns 1-4 from scratch, it's not feasible so they get replaced so that 7 other people aren't screwed over.

If they're going to lie their way into a group who want to get it done quickly and out of the way, yes i'm gone to "trap" them into letting me know. Respect works two ways thank you very much.

I would much prefer them to tell me prior to entering so we can at least consider it "Oh well, they're playing Black Mage/White Mage/Bard, they can learn" instead of wiping us over and over and over.

I think my "trap" is justifiable if they lied to us in the first place.


SIDE NOTE: I'd like to also mention this is people flat out saying they've done it before, NOT people who have said "I watched a guide".

Says you don't have time to explain, want a "quick run" yet don't care wiping five times on ADS so you can "trigger voice program laugher" and, only then, start trying to find a replacement.

What am I supposed to respond to you?

telling a lie means dishonesty; be it light or heavy.

I thought that's common sense... or have the world changed so much already? lol

Because MMORPG players are known for their honesty, lealty, fair playing and friendliness.

[Vindicate]

telling a lie means dishonesty; be it light or heavy.

I thought that's common sense... or have the world changed so much already? lol

Unfortunately you have to lie at those situations or you will be the liability or kicked mid-way when they read the first 3 words ^^

[ispano]

Unfortunately you have to lie at those situations or you will be the liability or kicked mid-way when they read the first 3 words ^^

No, by lying, you're STILL a liability, and liable to cause even more drama.

[Vindicate]

OR you can just do the first tries on bosses and dont screw up or learn quick and nobody would ever find out!

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Because MMORPG players are known for their honesty, lealty, fair playing and friendliness.

In my world, yes. Most of the people I played with on a regular basis in MMO's (statics, guilds, etc.), met in-game or from RL, were quite honest, rather fair-play (there's the occasional exploit, it's true) and always friendly (I don't play with those that aren't). We actually set "fair-play" as a primary value of my FC, when we created it back in June, and everyone feels good about that. Which is why, very sincerely, I am appalled at the kind of community I found here. It's at the LoL-CoD-DOTA level—and no I don't mean that as a compliment. I always thought these games had worse communities because skill-based games are bound to be more 'cocky' than gear/grind based ones… guess I was awfully wrong about that.

Here's a good sum-up of what is "fair-play" in sports; I don't see why we couldn't, or shouldn't, support these values in games.

What is fair play?
Fair play is a complex notion that comprises and embodies a number of values that are fundamental not only to sport but also to everyday life.
Respect, friendship, team spirit, fair competition, sport without doping, respect for written and unwritten rules such as equality, integrity, solidarity, tolerance, care, excellence and joy, are the building blocks of fair play that can be experienced and learnt both on and off the field.

Respect
For every athlete, playing by the written rules is mandatory. Respecting the unwritten ones is a must. Fair play requires unconditional respect for opponents, fellow players, referees and fans.

Friendship
Rivalry on the field does not exclude friendship. On the contrary. Friendship could grow from noble rivalries.

Team spirit
Individuals can be strong on their own but they are much stronger in a team. Victory achieved alone can be sweet but there is nothing sweeter than sharing that moment with your team.

Fair competition
To enjoy the fruits of success it is not enough to win. Triumph must be scored by absolutely fair means and by honest and just play.

Sport without doping
Someone who takes drugs cheats. Someone who cheats ruins the game. Someone who ruins the game cannot be played with.

Equality
Competing on equal terms is essential in sport. Otherwise performance cannot be measured properly.

Integrity
Being honest and having strong moral principles are essential to fair play. Practicing sport within a sound ethical framework is vitally important if you aim to be a true champion.

Solidarity
It is important to support each other and share feelings, aims and dreams. Mutual support brings mutual success on and off the field.

Tolerance
The willingness to accept behaviour or decisions you may not agree with develops your self-control. Ultimately that could be the deciding factor when it comes to winning or losing.

Care
True champions care about each other as they are well aware they could not be where they are without being cared for by others.

Excellence
Sport engages us in a collective effort to pursue human excellence.

Joy
Baron Pierre de Coubertin, the father of the modern Olympic Games said: ’The important thing in life is not the triumph, but the fight; the essential thing is not to have won, but to have fought well.’ Competition can be severe but you should always first look for joy when practicing any sports. You should never forget about the play even in the heat of the fight.
Without fairness and trustworthiness the established order of our society is at risk. If we do not play by the rules, we ruin the spirit of the game and it is impossible to play with destroyers of the game.
Fair play, which is an essential and central part of successful involvement, promotion and development in both sport and life, can teach people tolerance and respect for others. It allows them to integrate into society and create a sense of teamwork. Fair play in sport is capable of giving hope, pride and identity, and it is able to unite where nationalities, politics, religions and cultures often divide.
Cooperation in the spirit of fair play delivers even greater results than pure gamesmanship in all walks of life. It plays a key role, the role of a catalyst in today’s society as a means of improving quality of life and human well-being. […] Read more where that came from…

Source: International Fair Play Committee

EDIT: Hell I should make a thread about that, many people here really need to read that and get a hold of themselves.

[ispano]

OR you can just do the first tries on bosses and dont screw up or learn quick and nobody would ever find out!

Good players will notice. I see it all the time in DF in just about any instance.