Claim system, should it really dissappear?

[Alexios]

I think claims should remain for drops. That one thing is obvious. But claims for SP and XP are just stupid. In my opinion, you should get SP not for killings, but for successfully performed actions. Like it was implemented in the TES series. I think that system was brilliant. And that will also remove the leeches. I really hate it when some people in the party just stand nearby doing completely nothing, and still get the same SP. And behests might finally stop being so ridiculously boring, because the whole 15 big'uns won't try kicking the same little squirrel at the same time, but each will rather find his/her own target to fight. It will actually become more natural and therefore more enjoyable.

[Hyu]

I belive the claiming system shoudl remain as it is for the regular more, as most of the people in this thread agree.

Now, as for Large Scale events, why not just continue with the formula used in Final Fantasy XI? Everyone gets experience points (as in Besiedged) and everyone gets a shot for the items (as in Dynamis). It's a system that worked for years, so I don't understand why isn't it being used again. Just need to make sure all these events are instanced.

NMs should work as regular monsters do, so that any party that claims has the chance to test their strategy and their group against the monster. Final Fantasy XI also had a number of mechanisms to deal with the initial fight for claim, so they could also be used again.

[Edit] I found another thread on the same issue, that has the proper forum tag. Trying to link them together:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...gaging-enemies

[Kiara]

For common monster, I prefer the actual system. what I write below it's about notorious monsters.

I have experienced different ways of claims.

4. Everyone takes exp, everyone take loot according to the damage dealt/suffered.
this is the system I prefer. Example with numbers:

- Boss monster with 8,000 HP, during the fight he hit for 2,000 hp (direct damage). 10,000 xp total.

Group 1: G1 tanks the monster and the players hit him for 3,000 HP
Group 2: G2 doesn't tank the monster and the players hit him for 4,000 HP
Group 3: G3 deals only 1,000 HP and the monster die.

so, the group 1 takes 5,000 xp
the group 2 takes 4,000 xp
the group 3 takes 1,000 xp
In the same way the loot will be shared. If there is a RARE item, it will be rolled
50% for G1
40% for G2
10% G3
However It's possible to give more weight at the tank damage.
What does happen with this system ?
If we find the monster before the others, we can start to dps and tank, and if we are enough fast, the others will take only crumbs. However, not knowing at what point is the monster, every group will help killing him (and not only cursing the first group).

A pretty good idea. But the only problem with this is still the % Chance that someone can stroll in and hit an NM and still have a chance at the item. Sure it may only be ~5% chance (if they came really late), but that % Chance will eventually roll in favor of that person / LS.

It's just frustrating if you're on the "main group" that, say, did ~80% - 90% of the damage on an NM, and someone else strolls in, adds in some damage late and gets the low percentage chance roll. Sure they lucked out, but I can see this becoming an exploit of "NM Hunters" that stroll in late, and fight a few minutes, hoping to get a lucky roll, and repeat. Just feels like they didn't really earn the right to get a rare drop that way.

[Mr_Gyactus]

A pretty good idea. But the only problem with this is still the % Chance that someone can stroll in and hit an NM and still have a chance at the item. Sure it may only be ~5% chance (if they came really late), but that % Chance will eventually roll in favor of that person / LS.

It's just frustrating if you're on the "main group" that, say, did ~80% - 90% of the damage on an NM, and someone else strolls in, adds in some damage late and gets the low percentage chance roll. Sure they lucked out, but I can see this becoming an exploit of "NM Hunters" that stroll in late, and fight a few minutes, hoping to get a lucky roll, and repeat. Just feels like they didn't really earn the right to get a rare drop that way.

In that case, you can use the 5. For example the group need to have 30% of the damage for rolling a rare. If you have done 30% of the damage, maybe you are not the first hit, but still you have started to kill him early, or you are really overpowered.

[Shaily]

But claims for SP and XP are just stupid. In my opinion, you should get SP not for killings, but for successfully performed actions.

Isn't this how it was initially? And it was horrible. Jobs that were able to do their actions quickly (pugilist in particular) were getting loads of SP, while those that took longer (esp. casters) were getting almost none. If they were to go back to this, they would have to find a way to make it fair for all jobs, no matter how fast or slow they're able to complete actions. And if you're ever in a situation where you simply aren't able to get an action out before the mob is dead because you had a quick-hitter in the group... tough. Definitely not a system I would want to go back to.

[MysteryG]

Why can't them mob drop multiples of the same item based on the number of parties/people fighting it and just make the loot drops only lottable by each separate group and reduce the number of items a nm drops per group based on the number of people in each group. Personally i'd rather see everyone with potential for rewards for thier groups seperately then repeat sitting in Dragon's Aery every day for 3 hours fighting for claims. There just has to be be a better way.

While it is inconvenient for the people that lose on the claim, isn't that part of the allure of killing open world NM's? I don't want this game to turn into a pre-schooler's MMO. There will be plenty of ways to get loot including faction leves, dungeons, and other forms of instanced combat. I appreciate a challenge, I loved XI's claiming system. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[ckb]

While it is inconvenient for the people that lose on the claim, isn't that part of the allure of killing open world NM's? I don't want this game to turn into a pre-schooler's MMO. There will be plenty of ways to get loot including faction leves, dungeons, and other forms of instanced combat. I appreciate a challenge, I loved XI's claiming system. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Hadn't checked this in a long time. Anyways my point was more along the end result that system created in the past. My bot is better than your bot so I win, My NASA bot is better than your FFXI app, and the endless cycle from there. I'm not a saint so I won't sit here and say that I wouldn't do what needed to be done. My personal feeling on world spawns (with massive respawn timers) is that it's an outdated mechanic. Perhaps there is a better way to implement it. While I understand and respect that you enjoyed it and i'm sure that others did too. The thing I miss least is waking up at all hours just to camp the NM then go to work in the morning. To each his own, that is just my perspective.

[darkstarpoet1]

there's a few major changes i would love to see in the claim system.

1. if i am attacking a mob and a higher level mob aggros and attacks me is the ability to turn and put a priority on that mob and still be able to get sp off that mob. i use that as an example cause if i am fighting a cobblyn and a diremite attacks me that diremite must die first because it is actually strong enough to kill me.

2. i am doin a leve and a miteling attacks a mage in back of the group and turns around to kill it to get it off them you will lose mobs from a leve that is yours anyways. all leve mobs should already be classified as claimed mobs.

3. behest you are running with the group and fighting mobs and you hit one and realize it is not red because some guy ran off by himself and started attacking random mobs. then all mobs in the behest would be classified as claimed mobs.

i do not like the idea of first person hitting the mobs getting all the sp because you would have people if someone comes into an area just aoe every mob in there to keep others from being able to claim a mob and even if they did and killed it that first person would get all the sp.

the idea of everyone attacking a mob getting equal exp sp off it would be easily taken advantage of too. you run through areas with high level mobs and see someone attacking a high level mob run up hit once and then leave. you would get free sp for doin nothing.

i think this is something they will have to tweak multiple times to get the correct mixture on with multiple party on single mob parties because they can be exploited quite easily. we already know that will happen with the other glitches people found to play stupidly, but get most sp.

[NoMX]

Currently, SE is attempting to lower the party size from 15 to 8. This is a much needed change, as killing NM's with anything more than 8 people is just embarrassingly easy anyways. Hell, it's embarrassingly easy with only 8. They also mentioned they will make NM's EASIER once party size is lowered... That'll suck. They're not even a challenge now.

Now, to my main point for posting; allowing anybody to attack a monster makes max party size irrelevant. They want to make the game balanced around either 4, or 8 man parties but they want to allow anyone and everyone to attack any monster at any time? Well... Then you got twenty parties of 8 out there wailing on an NM... It's now broked. And don't pretend it won't happen if they remove the claim system.

[InuraBera]

Now, to my main point for posting; allowing anybody to attack a monster makes max party size irrelevant. They want to make the game balanced around either 4, or 8 man parties but they want to allow anyone and everyone to attack any monster at any time? Well... Then you got twenty parties of 8 out there wailing on an NM... It's now broked. And don't pretend it won't happen if they remove the claim system.

It is important to remember that end-game content wont all be Nortorious Monsters in the open world, if you had been following at all you would see that much of it will be moving towards 'instanced' content (love it or loathe it) so it becomes a somewhat moot point.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...816df108bbfbf4

Read through the diagram there for some interesting stuff.

I feel that Notorious Monsters will end up quite like 'Rare Spawns' as in World of Warcraft, or 'world bosses' - a challenge with minor loot rewards for everyone involved, but not necessarily meant to be particularly well organised minus basic instructions, such as don't let it step on you, where as the Instances and such let them design an interesting encounter free from the distractions of other players and with challenges within made specifically for your eight man group.

It is also important to note that four man parties are to be the 'norm' with eight man being 'large', or 'Alliance (FFXI I believe?)'/'Raid' (WoW terminology).

It is very important to realise that what you are playing at the moment is not what you are going to be playing once all these changes and additions are in, even the Combat System is going to be changed completely, and that will have wide ranging repercussions. Don't try and compare it to what you have at the moment, but instead by combining what we have learned and the possible direction of content and the game.