Claim system, should it really dissappear?

[MysteryG]

Why can't them mob drop multiples of the same item based on the number of parties/people fighting it and just make the loot drops only lottable by each separate group and reduce the number of items a nm drops per group based on the number of people in each group. Personally i'd rather see everyone with potential for rewards for thier groups seperately then repeat sitting in Dragon's Aery every day for 3 hours fighting for claims. There just has to be be a better way.

While it is inconvenient for the people that lose on the claim, isn't that part of the allure of killing open world NM's? I don't want this game to turn into a pre-schooler's MMO. There will be plenty of ways to get loot including faction leves, dungeons, and other forms of instanced combat. I appreciate a challenge, I loved XI's claiming system. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[ckb]

While it is inconvenient for the people that lose on the claim, isn't that part of the allure of killing open world NM's? I don't want this game to turn into a pre-schooler's MMO. There will be plenty of ways to get loot including faction leves, dungeons, and other forms of instanced combat. I appreciate a challenge, I loved XI's claiming system. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Hadn't checked this in a long time. Anyways my point was more along the end result that system created in the past. My bot is better than your bot so I win, My NASA bot is better than your FFXI app, and the endless cycle from there. I'm not a saint so I won't sit here and say that I wouldn't do what needed to be done. My personal feeling on world spawns (with massive respawn timers) is that it's an outdated mechanic. Perhaps there is a better way to implement it. While I understand and respect that you enjoyed it and i'm sure that others did too. The thing I miss least is waking up at all hours just to camp the NM then go to work in the morning. To each his own, that is just my perspective.

[Alleyia]

Non-claim would work for Guildleve and Behest Mobs, since it's a problem when people don't realize they're attacking the wrong mob. (The Mobs are claimed by the group though.. of course!)

But everything outside a leve or behest should be claimed by the person who first attacked a monster.

[Xfraze]

I think that if you attack a monster, you should be the only one to get the experience and rewards unless you're in a party, then it's shared. Outside of party combat, then I think if you're getting your ass handed to you, then you should be able to receive assistance. I like the idea Leowilde proposed, but I would tweak it to say that if while in combat, you type out /helpme, then you get some emote that says "<character name> looks at <t> with fear and begs for help with defeating it." or something to that effect. Then, that monster has open season declared on it. This way, people who are fighting NM for the challenge can't have some misguided hero of justice swing and "save" the day, and people who really want the help can ask for it.

[Mr_Gyactus]

For common monster, I prefer the actual system. what I write below it's about notorious monsters.

I have experienced different ways of claims.

1. First hit takes exp/loot. Everyone can help but takes nothing.
This system has a "problem", if you have an high level char as friend, you can exp really fast: you hit, he kills.

2 First hit takes exp/loot. Everyone can help, but takes nothing, but decrease the base exp taken from the first one.
This is the system used in a lot of games (this one, not the first one). The problem is the opposite of the 1., there will be someone "stealing your exp". It's not important if the exp comes from quest rewards, but it can be a problem if the exp, as in FF14, comes from monsters.

3 First hit takes exp/loot. No one can help.
The actual system in FF14.

4. Everyone takes exp, everyone take loot according to the damage dealt/suffered.
this is the system I prefer. Example with numbers:

- Boss monster with 8,000 HP, during the fight he hit for 2,000 hp (direct damage). 10,000 xp total.

Group 1: G1 tanks the monster and the players hit him for 3,000 HP
Group 2: G2 doesn't tank the monster and the players hit him for 4,000 HP
Group 3: G3 deals only 1,000 HP and the monster die.

so, the group 1 takes 5,000 xp
the group 2 takes 4,000 xp
the group 3 takes 1,000 xp
In the same way the loot will be shared. If there is a RARE item, it will be rolled
50% for G1
40% for G2
10% G3
However It's possible to give more weight at the tank damage.
What does happen with this system ?
If we find the monster before the others, we can start to dps and tank, and if we are enough fast, the others will take only crumbs. However, not knowing at what point is the monster, every group will help killing him (and not only cursing the first group).

5. Everyone takes exp, the player who does the bigger amount of damage takes the loot.
similar to 4, but if we want loot, we have to damage at least a % (20% or more). In the example, only g1 and g2 take loot, g3 takes only some exp.

About Behest.
I think the actual system works. We can do a party, and kill the monsters together or be greedy and try to kill everything with our little party. The best idea I have seen is the so called "public quest" party, where, when an event starts, an invite for a new party is prompted to everyone.

[Kiara]

For common monster, I prefer the actual system. what I write below it's about notorious monsters.

I have experienced different ways of claims.

4. Everyone takes exp, everyone take loot according to the damage dealt/suffered.
this is the system I prefer. Example with numbers:

- Boss monster with 8,000 HP, during the fight he hit for 2,000 hp (direct damage). 10,000 xp total.

Group 1: G1 tanks the monster and the players hit him for 3,000 HP
Group 2: G2 doesn't tank the monster and the players hit him for 4,000 HP
Group 3: G3 deals only 1,000 HP and the monster die.

so, the group 1 takes 5,000 xp
the group 2 takes 4,000 xp
the group 3 takes 1,000 xp
In the same way the loot will be shared. If there is a RARE item, it will be rolled
50% for G1
40% for G2
10% G3
However It's possible to give more weight at the tank damage.
What does happen with this system ?
If we find the monster before the others, we can start to dps and tank, and if we are enough fast, the others will take only crumbs. However, not knowing at what point is the monster, every group will help killing him (and not only cursing the first group).

A pretty good idea. But the only problem with this is still the % Chance that someone can stroll in and hit an NM and still have a chance at the item. Sure it may only be ~5% chance (if they came really late), but that % Chance will eventually roll in favor of that person / LS.

It's just frustrating if you're on the "main group" that, say, did ~80% - 90% of the damage on an NM, and someone else strolls in, adds in some damage late and gets the low percentage chance roll. Sure they lucked out, but I can see this becoming an exploit of "NM Hunters" that stroll in late, and fight a few minutes, hoping to get a lucky roll, and repeat. Just feels like they didn't really earn the right to get a rare drop that way.

[Mr_Gyactus]

A pretty good idea. But the only problem with this is still the % Chance that someone can stroll in and hit an NM and still have a chance at the item. Sure it may only be ~5% chance (if they came really late), but that % Chance will eventually roll in favor of that person / LS.

It's just frustrating if you're on the "main group" that, say, did ~80% - 90% of the damage on an NM, and someone else strolls in, adds in some damage late and gets the low percentage chance roll. Sure they lucked out, but I can see this becoming an exploit of "NM Hunters" that stroll in late, and fight a few minutes, hoping to get a lucky roll, and repeat. Just feels like they didn't really earn the right to get a rare drop that way.

In that case, you can use the 5. For example the group need to have 30% of the damage for rolling a rare. If you have done 30% of the damage, maybe you are not the first hit, but still you have started to kill him early, or you are really overpowered.

[Twiddle]

But everything outside a leve or behest should be claimed by the person who first attacked a monster.

i agree, first come first serve is best. if someone claimed a mob, they have the right to kill it as they please. if they can not kill and wipe the next in line can go for it. the idea of 1 claiming and every one can attack is bad, cus than 1 person can keep claim, and still get loot while the onlookers than can also attack kill it for him. if god forbid it's made that the group or person that does the highest dmg gets the loot no matter who claim, than i'll honestly retire, aion did it like that and it was horrid.

[Asra]

The claim system should be kept.

That's all I have to or need to say.

I don't know about the underlying code that may complicate the dev teams attempts to implement PvP and Large scale PvE content due to the current claiming system, but it was not an issue in XI with Besieged or Ballista/Brenner (I miss Brenner by the way, fun times) so I don't see the complications it may present on a game with a similar core engine (based on observation.) While I sure don't want to see the return of Aery anytime soon (different issue though), I would sooner not forgo the claiming system.

[Suzaku]

A call for help system is an obvious fix for "help! I'm getting my ass kicked here!"

The least messy option for claiming is the first attacker (and his/her party) get claim, and nobody else gets to attack it unless the claimant calls for help. At which point the monster gives no XP or loot.

I wouldn't mind seeing roaming mobs divided into groups like levequest mobs, and have the pathing and arrangement of enemies set such that you don't have to worry about aggroing a group other than what you're fighting.

Alternatively, the moral of the story could be "don't suck" and if you get aggroed by a mob while fighting something else, oh well. Sucks to be you.