Wandering Palace Speed Runs (and You)

[PArcher]

SNIP

When I heal a speed-run, my PAL throws Hallowed down on that first pull (up to and including the room past the first beetles) if he has it (which is every other SR). If he has it, I just need to pop Divine Seal since he's likely to Cover me as I get some aggro from my Cure II spam as he runs to grab that last room.
If he doesn't have it, either we only pull up to the beetles or I have to pop Seal and Mind and start healing when the beetles spawn, as he runs to the other room.

And yes, the tank should be popping at least one or two defensive CDs (outside of Hallowed and Cover) during each pull, more if needed


I have a video of a 12:23 run - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8AWl6xpC3A

As for gear: I am full i70 (Strategos Ring and Relic, everything else DL or Vanya), others have mix of i70 and i90.

[dragonflyseksparade]

snip

I"m sorry that you think that. We are able to do non-speed run AK runs in about 26-27 minutes with R+1/DL while eating nachos and watching netflix. If we actually put in effort it would be sub 25 minutes. Weeks ago I did a 26min AK run on my BLM when I did not have a +1 relic and half of my gear was AK gear. The other DPS was full DL, R+1, no myth/coil gear - in other words, between 2 dps, only 1 i90 item was equipped. So 25mins is quite possible without i90 gear. Speed run AK runs which don't happen much anymore can easily be 18-22 mins as someone else mentioned.

[Gorlioliolio]

Technically speaking, the tank shouldn't be able to hold threat for that long to die there. Usually your DPS will be aoe-ing hard enough to split the threat, and balance out the damage. (though you do have to get stress on healing both sides is a different issue).

Blms should also be putting in a sleep-ga before initial AoE rotation, to steady the group enough time for you to top off the tank, and/or Stoneskin.

It's team work, and without it, stop shaving a few seconds, and just keeping keeping a longer run.

As a tank I disagree with you entirely, usually a blm will pull off maybe 1 mob that didn't get flashed because it was slightly out of range of flash #1 and its usually at 5% hp and 1 fast blade away from coming back to me.

As to the question from the healer, don't run into the first pull thinking just heal, be in cleric stance beforehand, swiftcast holy, normal cast second holy then drop cleric and top off tank, you just bought 6 seconds of 0 damage to your tank, also the tank should be hitting at least 1 if not 2 cooldowns just before the last mobs of pull 1. I usually pop rampart and foresight at this point, for pull 2 I start with sentinel then bulwark when it wears off, tonberry is usually dead then and we are ready to go into boss room.

As to the OP, DONT WAIT FOR THE TONBERRY. if he is pathing towards the skeletons run right through him, this timing puts the right side split tonberry walking away slightly so you can pull the skellies ghosts and tonberrys about halfway down the hall between the rusted devices. Once you catch the tonberry turn around and run back to ghosts, pop sentinel to buy healer some time because you are probably missing some hp from the tonberry smack but your group has just outrun it and you didn't have to wait 2 minutes for him to saunter past.

[PArcher]

@Beglariont

Some tanks actually do that and really... idk why. Like getting beetles is already pushing it but continuing further? Like dude. I can't heal you until you initiate all the hate in mobs unless you want me dead because I'll pull them from you right off the bat.

Not all tanks are understanding though... some tanks would be like, "oops.... sorry. Should I go a bit slower?" Like they know who's right and wrong when they pull too much. But most of them are just like, "WHO TOLD YOU TO STOP HEALING ME?!"

Now, are you talking about the room right after the beetles (buzzards) or the pull after (slugs)? You should be able to heal up to the buzzards in your gear, assuming both you and the tank pop CDs right and don't get bad RNG, and have at least competent AoE DPS.

[MithrasInvictus]

My question to you or any tanks out there is, do you ever use in addition to shield oath, any other abilities?

Absolutely I do!. I pop bulwark whenever it is up since I use a heavy darksteel scutum with a crummy block rate (this does not happen if I am only holding a couple of monsters, as the benefit is more-fully realised when that chance to block is running through the RNG several times a second), and go through a rotation of Rampart, Foresight, and Sentinel (in that order quickest CD -> longest CD), and start again at Rampart if it has cooled down before I need others, depending on the pace of the dungeon. I try to keep Fight or Flight up whenever it is available.
This is of course in a perfect world, and things get missed due to distractions or judgement calls based on how much fight a given group of monsters have left in them.

[kukurumei]

As a tank I disagree with you entirely, usually a blm will pull off maybe 1 mob that didn't get flashed because it was slightly out of range of flash #1 and its usually at 5% hp and 1 fast blade away from coming back to me.

I don't know of any pld that can outthreat a blm's flare rotation. They will take threat very soon no matter what you do. By that time, it shouldn't matter if the healer is in sync, because the blm will be getting Stoneskin, and have his own walls.

If you've been having blms that can't take threat from you, they are doing you a favor. Those flares are more or less impossible to pull back from, once they get into it.

Tanks that wait around for the CD is putting in just as much time as they are saving. A good team will meld with each other, but in the end it saves all of +/- couple of minutes.

In the end after every round WC, you really aren't doing anything special, except getting lucky on a few and bad luck on others.

[Gorlioliolio]

I don't know of any pld that can outthreat a blm's flare rotation. They will take threat very soon no matter what you do. By that time, it shouldn't matter if the healer is in sync, because the blm will be getting Stoneskin, and have his own walls.

If you've been having blms that can't take threat from you, they are doing you a favor. Those flares are more or less impossible to pull back from, once they get into it.

Tanks that wait around for the CD is putting in just as much time as they are saving. A good team will meld with each other, but in the end it saves all of +/- couple of minutes.

In the end after every round WC, you really aren't doing anything special, except getting lucky on a few and bad luck on others.

I don't know if you are just a bad tank or a blm who groups with bad tanks but you are wrong unless every single blm ive grouped with holds back like crazy.

And when the mobs are really low and they are starting to pull threat is usually because ive been trying to get my mp back for the next pull, if I just kept my flash rotation going the mobs would be long dead before they pull them off.

[PArcher]

I don't know if you are just a bad tank or a blm who groups with bad tanks but you are wrong unless every single blm ive grouped with holds back like crazy.

And when the mobs are really low and they are starting to pull threat is usually because ive been trying to get my mp back for the next pull, if I just kept my flash rotation going the mobs would be long dead before they pull them off.

I think it really depends more on the BLM. Ours can pull with Flare, but I'll have to look at the one video again, he may have Raging up and could have pulled a bunch of crits as well. RNG does play a big role in it. And yeah, our PAL may not be keeping mob aggro up as much either, saving mana for the next pull.

[RehnValor]

Agreed. Assuming both tank and blm are geared around the same ilevel, the pld can potentially hold hate the entire time off blm until he needs to riot blade back MP for the next pull. Spamming flash is the way to go, but there's always cover to fall back on in case of emergencies. A whm who knows when to holy during pulls can help massively as well, though ironically I tend to cover my whms anyways since mines feel like only more than 5 holy are appropriate for all pulls.

[symba]

I don't know if you are just a bad tank or a blm who groups with bad tanks but you are wrong unless every single blm ive grouped with holds back like crazy.

And when the mobs are really low and they are starting to pull threat is usually because ive been trying to get my mp back for the next pull, if I just kept my flash rotation going the mobs would be long dead before they pull them off.

It's nothing to be ashamed of. My BLM friend has and probably will pull hate off me in the future as he generally does more damage than flash with riotblade spam can put out hate, need mana song to keep up really. But by the time he's pulling hate everything's nearly dead.