Wandering Palace Speed Runs (and You)

[Angelwatch]

I realize that I might be preaching to the choir here, I've had enough bad experiences with Wandering Palaces "Speed Runs" that I wanted to open up an honest conversation regarding the practice.

Wandering Palace Speed Runs are the, current, preferred method of farming Philosophy and Mythology. Done properly they are extremely fast and efficient. However, they are also extremely stressful and very easy to mess up. With that being said, here are my thoughts and tips regarding them from a tank point of view (Paladin is my "main" job). Please note that I'm going to try and avoid so called "bright lines" (i.e. you must have exactly 3,912 hitpoints as a bard or more otherwise the run will fail) and speak more in generalities.

1. Communication: While there is a standard format for speed runs there are also a number of places where things can differ slightly. Whenever I join a /shout speed run, I do so with the expectation that the group will stick around for a few runs. As such I like to let the group know on the first run what my pulls look like and what I expect from other group members. For example, my second pull is the second half of the mobs leading up to the first boss. The only one that needs to die is the final Tonberry if everything is slept prior to pulling the boss. However, I've had plenty of times where half the group expected us to sleep the pull and the other half expected us to kill it all. Needless to say that in those instances, wipes have ensued. Communication helps prevent this misunderstanding.

2. Wipes will happen and there will be waiting around. As mentioned, speed runs are very stressful on tanks (and healers I'm sure). A single slip up will result in a wipe. If you're going to ragequit for every little wipe, you may be better sticking with your FC who will put up with your attitude. Also, there are times when I will be waiting around. It takes a certain amount of MP to pull everything and hold aggro on it. If I lack that MP, I'm going to wait a few seconds before pulling the next pack. Also, in the "maze" area there is one big Tonberry that is particularly annoying. After opening the door and going up the stairs, there is one that paths right through the middle room with 3 skeletons and the door device. Many times we'll need to wait for him to path by (especially if he's coming right down the middle of that room). Personally I take this as a good thing because it means that we're making good time.

3. Gear does matter. I'm not going to list bright lines. The gear level requirement will differ from group to group but it does matter. The better the tank's gear, the longer s/he can stay alive. The better the healer's gear, the easier it is for him/her to keep the tank alive. The better the DPS gear, the faster the stuff dies. So you saw a youtube video where a group wore swimsuits and completed the run in less than 10 minutes? I don't particularly care. If such a group exists they, likely, have been playing together for awhile and have good synergy with each other. Your typical /shout group isn't likely to duplicate the feat without a lot of practice.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on them. Personally, with a good group I really enjoy them and consider anything under 20 minutes a "success" with my best runs around 14 minutes. But I've also found them to be the most frustrating thing possible when grouping with people who have overinflated egos. As I mentioned, I usually play a Paladin as my "main" job and part of the problem with that is I don't get to see how other tanks actually do the instance. I had to learn on the go.

[One_WingedAngel]

I agree with most of the point, but gear on healer matter on holy/dd but not on heal, anything above 14-15 should be considered as a failure because with a 3:4 ratio on reward you are better of doing ak sr which is more stable and can be done in sub 17-18 mins with relic +1 group.

[Eclair_Xysha]

I also think that tanks shouldn't decide its a speed run right off the bat with DF. I always examine people when I get a chance to. If someone is low geared I ask the tank to not speed run so much because someone in the party is low geared.

But then most of them, they don't listen. They want everything their way. Like hello, how do you expect max AOE damage if someone is piss poor low geared? I had a bard that came into WP with 2.5k hp asking if its a speed run... I just spat out, NO. You don't have to examine to know that person is already geared low with that HP.

[kukurumei]

I agree with most of the point, but gear on healer matter on holy/dd but not on heal, anything above 14-15 should be considered as a failure because with a 3:4 ratio on reward you are better of doing ak sr which is more stable and can be done in sub 17-18 mins with relic +1 group.

You are exaggerating those numbers quite a lot. While you can cherry pick jobs, and do death runs to achieve those numbers, very rarely will they occure even with those cheats (who wants to die and repair to save a whole minute when you can net 300g for that minute).

AK speeds at around 30-35m depending on job combination, and safety of lag-oopsie
WP speed-semi speed- runs at around 20-25 depending on job combination and safety.

If you want to go make 15m the normal, then stop stating relic+1, because that's not, that's "I have nothing better to do between my coils".

[Beglariont]

I had a very bad WP speed run last night. I seemed to be blamed by the tank for letting him die but curious of your opinion. Death on first pull in which the tank pulled every mob past the beetles, just before the 2nd coffer room (kill everything strat). I couldn't pour in enough heals, and we are both full DL, +1 relic. I noticed he only had Shield Oath up, as well as my shell/protect and stoneskin which was off by the time my first heal came in. Got a heal 1, heal 2 in and then he was dead. Looking back now I would have swiftcast and presence of mind to get heals off quicker, but have never needed to do this in the past.

My question to you or any tanks out there is, do you ever use in addition to shield oath, any other abilities during this first long pull at WP such as convalescence, thrill of battle, bulwark, sentinel etc...???

[kukurumei]

I had a very bad WP speed run last night. I seemed to be blamed by the tank for letting him die but curious of your opinion. Death on first pull in which the tank pulled every mob past the beetles, just before the 2nd coffer room (kill everything strat). I couldn't pour in enough heals, and we are both full DL, +1 relic. I noticed he only had Shield Oath up, as well as my shell/protect and stoneskin which was off by the time my first heal came in. Got a heal 1, heal 2 in and then he was dead. Looking back now I would have swiftcast and presence of mind to get heals off quicker, but have never needed to do this in the past.

My question to you or any tanks out there is, do you ever use in addition to shield oath, any other abilities during this first long pull at WP such as convalescence, thrill of battle, bulwark, sentinel etc...???

Technically speaking, the tank shouldn't be able to hold threat for that long to die there. Usually your DPS will be aoe-ing hard enough to split the threat, and balance out the damage. (though you do have to get stress on healing both sides is a different issue).

Blms should also be putting in a sleep-ga before initial AoE rotation, to steady the group enough time for you to top off the tank, and/or Stoneskin.

It's team work, and without it, stop shaving a few seconds, and just keeping keeping a longer run.

[symba]

You should be using cooldowns on pulls, you don't need them for the bosses.

[dragonflyseksparade]

AK speeds at around 30-35m depending on job combination, and safety of lag-oopsie
WP speed-semi speed- runs at around 20-25 depending on job combination and safety.

This is funny because I was trolling people saying stuff like this last night. Whereas I feel that you actually think a 30min AK and 20min WP is fast.

[kukurumei]

This is funny because I was trolling people saying stuff like this last night. Whereas I feel that you actually think a 30min AK and 20min WP is fast.

Then don't go in with DL relic+1 standards. Even with the healer blowing hard in cleric stances, you're not going to get those numbers. You're trying to make i70 and i90 synonymous.

Even with partial i90, you're probably be lucky to hit sub 30 in ak. Even with the sac pulls on bridges and the end (it really doesn't save that much time because you gotta rebuff- steady-rebuff-weakness aware)

This makes people think they have to cherry pick jobs and do unreasonable things to make impossible numbers happen.

[Eclair_Xysha]

@Beglariont

Some tanks actually do that and really... idk why. Like getting beetles is already pushing it but continuing further? Like dude. I can't heal you until you initiate all the hate in mobs unless you want me dead because I'll pull them from you right off the bat.

Not all tanks are understanding though... some tanks would be like, "oops.... sorry. Should I go a bit slower?" Like they know who's right and wrong when they pull too much. But most of them are just like, "WHO TOLD YOU TO STOP HEALING ME?!"