Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

[FyeyaHerald]

I see a lot of potential in this, but I don't think we'll be out mitigating paladins.

And that's OK.

[Pavise]

The warrior buffs are well deserved and their synergy with paladins will be second to none you're always going to want both tanks side by side in the raid.
It's quite funny though with the knee jerk reactions of some of the paladins on these forums.

[HunkyJimpjorps]

I'm really disappointed they decided to go the homogenization route. Holmgang is now Hallowed Ground, they will do more dmg, generate WAY more enmity, have a ridiculously high HP pool, and have on-par defense with paladin.

So Yoshi, why do you think anyone would want to pick a tank with 25% less hp, does less dmg, and has a harder time holding threat? Because that's the boat you're putting PLD in with these changes.

Because they can stun at will, shrug off more damage, require less babysitting, and despite the Holmgang change, still be able to go perfectly immune and put zero stress on the healers during emergencies.

As a healer, I'm enjoying that these changes take care of one of my biggest beefs with WARs as the person who's designated with keeping them upright.

[Amas]

You're correct that WAR takes more damage per GCD, however it does not require more Healing per GCD.

The passive mitigation will be approx. a flat 7~10% thanks to Storm's Path and Inner Beast.

Complex? No. Use Butcher combo until "safety-net" threat achieved, then use Storm's Path combo. Inner Beast at 5 stacks. That's it, that is not complex.

Inferior CDs? Yes, but superior active mitigation in the form of Inner Beast and Storm's Path.

Suffer from burst? No. Holmgang. Smaller CD, cannot die.

Silence? Irrelevant from a Tanking perspective.

I specifically said "before Inner Beast" when it comes to healing per GCD. In theory, the point of the healing on Inner Beast is to address the delta between -20% damage taken and +20% healing received (they are NOT equivalent). Tanks requiring equivalent external healing is a major component of overall balance.

Incoming damage is not flat, so looking at flat mitigation doesn't tell the whole story. A truly excellent tank will actually get more distance out of Inner Beast with fight knowledge than simply looking at the flat case, while most tanks will generally get less (more major spikes will slip between IB buff windows).

Complex? Yes, but not always. Storm's Path combo does not generate threat faster than competent DPS classes playing properly, so managing buff uptime while using BB combos for additional threat will still require more attention than just mindlessly spamming Halone combos. Inner Beast at 5 stacks? Mostly yes, but knowing when to use it or delay it based on the fight at hand will be one thing that separates a competent WAR from a great WAR.

Superior active mitigation? Yes, but not by a major amount. A group with WAR+PLD means you can effectively remove Storm's Path from comparison as either tank would benefit from it equally. It's only relevant in the case of 2x WAR vs. 2x PLD, which will seemingly be inferior to a mixed pair but 2x PLD will still surpass 2x WAR because of things like Spirits Within and Hallowed Ground.

Suffer from burst? Yes. Very much yes. Hallowed Ground = zero damage taken. Not only can't you die, you require precisely 0 MP for its duration. Holmgang, not so much. You still eat the burst and have to be healed up from it, you just can't die from it. On top of that, Sentinel shames any other tool in WAR's arsenal for burst mitigation. Can die, but unlikely as hell. PLD CDs are straight-up better for mitigating burst, especially in windows longer than 6 seconds.

Silence... Irrelevant? ADS in Turn 1 + all of Turn 2? Sure, you can just 2x BRD everything, but BRD is getting nerfed in 2.1 (as it needs to be), and once that happens the prevalence of 2x BRD groups will drop like a stone. We already prefer to run with 1 BRD so that we can pack in more DPS, which means a tank that can silence High Voltage is an incredibly useful thing.

[OmegaSinX]

As someone who plays Both PLD and WAR for END Game, I dont think these improvements are OP at all. IMO, these changes only make the 2 tanks Balanced. Both Can now do the job but each will still have things to bring to the party.




PLD will still be needed for Battles like Ifrit where they can Stun on demand. PLD Mitigation still will be superior but with WAR HP they will be more balanced.

Wars will be Better AoE Tank's, and They will be needed for Fights where Party needs Debuff ( -10% Slashing resistence, -50% Healing Debuff)

So if SE does this right, the best party will have a PLD and WAR, just like the way SCH and WHM are best for raids.

As I stated before, PLD & WAR combo will most likely be best setup for raids. Lets say Storm Path Reduce Targets's Damage by 10%. With Both PLD and WAR set up we could have -20 Damage reduction from Strom Path and Rage Of Halone, -50% healing from Strom Eye, -10% Slashing resistence Stun off GCD, Silent of GCD.

[Haibel]

I'm almost certain the enmity changes will apply to Shield Oath and Flash as well. I'm sure Yoshi-P understands how difficult it is for a fresh level 50 to hold threat against a decked out ilvl 90, which is what the increased enmity is supposed to address.

I don't know, SE has a habit of not seeing the forest from the tree's. From playing both, I know war is far better at group hate. Packs of trash mobs are Warriors bag.
Hell hate has never been a problem for War at all. It's really just been surviving boss fights. They really needed to address Flash along with warrior. Flash is far too weak.
Provoke only putting you one above the highest hate needs to be fixed. It's really needs to be at least 500 to give a buffer. it's on a long enough cooldown as it is. Pld
dmg plus provoke is not nearly high enough to reclaim hate if the group isn't paying attention. I don't have this problem with warrior. never have.

[Gamemako]

I do agree that upon casting Mercy Stroke it will put a debuff on the target/ or buff on caster that upon death/kill will cause the 20% heal. Or just make it heal 20% Max HP on successful usage.

Can't put it on successful use without taking it off cross-class, and that still would make it harder to balance a second job. I think the best way to do it is just to nerf healing for cross-class uses and make it easier to get the healing without pushing the damage aspect one way or the other. A 10% heal would be pretty meaningless for most DPS jobs, but a 25% heal would mean the world (or at least an extra GCD or two of life) for a tank.

And really, there is no need to worry about what most people say in here, most of them are chicken littles crying the falling of the sky whilst hardly doing any content.

Honestly, it's not even hard to look at the differences and see that the "zomg diz maekz WAR OP" is such nonsense. The lack of thought is unsurprising but still frustrating. Sephirah over there still thinks WAR has more eHP than PLD, which is somewhere between funny and sad.

//EDIT: I'm going to make a proposed-change balance analysis this evening, I think, just to have a link to spam every time someone says something silly.

[Fated]

Some of these changes seem a tad OP, but overall Warrior needed something big like this. They had no place in progression content because they were getting slapped like little school girls.

[Ladon]

The changes seem interesting, will have to see how it works out.

Was sort of hoping Paladins would get a non-crappy cross class skill from Warriors after the change though.

[Franklin4337]

Well that's great! more emnity is going to be really useful as we won't have to just stand about spamming the agro combo, We can use a bit of our strength to inflict some hurt.
I'm looking forward to the update and as far as I'm concerned it can't come soon enough.
Ps I love the people moaning that have pld avatars, go home paladins you need a new job.