Yoshida on Tomestone changes!

[ReiszRie]

Yes. It's a system that took out all the bullcrap we dealt with in FFXI of going weeks and months getting absolutely nothing to show for our work (which also wasn't hard, it was just SUPER TEDIOUS BULLCRAP...bee tee dub). Now, we can work toward equipment while still having a goal of getting the best.

I honestly cannot fathom how anybody can see this as a bad thing...

The issue as i've mentioned, is that Myth gear are the best, and there ss nothing more to look forward to after getting it, unless they increase the stats on Allagans.

I have no issue if this is DL gears being made cheaper as DLs are required to participate in many other end game contents but Myth gears are literally the ultimate gear and I hope you can see my point.

[Arkista]

The issue as i've mentioned, is that Myth gear are the best, and there ss nothing more to look forward to after getting it, unless they increase the stats on Allagans.

I have no issue if this is DL gears being made cheaper as DLs are required to participate in many other end game contents but Myth gears are literally the ultimate gear and I hope you can see my point.

Uh no... I'm sorry but you are wrong not all Relic is BIS and not all Allagan is BIS, But to say that relic is better than Allagan is just wrong they may have the same base stats but the extra stats are different and that's what makes most allagan better than relic.

I have 4 pieces of relic which is better than Allagan for my MNK 2 gear and 2 Acc pieces in 2 weeks I'll buy the Relic body to hold me over until I can get the Allagan Body.

We cap myth on monday night now in about 1.5 hours... Just doing 2/4 turns of BCB and Garuda Farm. We have killed garuda in 3:28 (2 minutes 28 seconds) which is 180 myth an hour..

I'm pretty excited for the upcoming changes, I just hope they raise the cap to something reasonable, not something low like 350... trolllolol.. Imo 495 to 900 would be reasonable.

450 Going by what Yoshi said today. Anything more than that is too much.

[YuriRamona]

The issue as i've mentioned, is that Myth gear are the best, and there ss nothing more to look forward to after getting it, unless they increase the stats on Allagans.

I have no issue if this is DL gears being made cheaper as DLs are required to participate in many other end game contents but Myth gears are literally the ultimate gear and I hope you can see my point.

This was my post in the other thread.

A weekly reset on the tomestone cap only partially addresses this. More casual players (or dedicated players under extenuating circumstances) will arrive at the endgame and will forever be behind players who reached endgame earlier. While the progress of dedicated players is limited, the stratification/gap between dedicated players and casual players will always be present.

Players should each have a capped allotment of mythology tomestomes assigned to them that grows every week by 300/450 starting from the first week of release.

With this system, a player that reaches level 50 for the first time tomorrow has the chance to gather the thousands of mythology tomestones that their friends or peers have already obtained over the course of the last few months.

Dedicated players aren't really harmed by this system; they were still the first to enjoy the benefits of accessing higher level content such as the Binding Coil and obtain gear earlier. And, if anything, having casual players be able to reach dedicated players' level of achievement means there are more opportunities to make friends and meet new players.

This is dangerous to fostering a healthy endgame community.

As it stands, it is quite difficult to ask dedicated players who have nearly completed a set of item level 90 equipment for a job to party up with an equally eager player who, due to the weekly cap, can only obtain, at best, one item level 90 weapon when they've reached level 50. By keeping dedicated players permanently ahead and casual players behind, there is little opportunity of mixing the two groups and generating new friendships. Even the most eager casual player must wait months to reach the level of achievement of a dedicated player - and by that point, they will once again be months ahead.

This system also disincentivizes and punishes casual players for playing through mythology tomestone-granting dungeons repeatedly. While dedicated players have dozens, if not hundreds, of completions through these dungeons and encounters along their course of obtaining mythology tomestones every week, casual players will, often, only be rewarded lesser tomestones of philosophy for completing this content. They are discouraged from reaching the same level of mastery and understanding as dedicated players. This translates to an ever-widening gap in skill and experience in endgame content.

An accumulating personal allotment is simply an extension of the ideals and tenets of the rested EXP system and the levequest allotment system. Players who have less time for the game should be encouraged and supported in their efforts to catch up, even at the highest level of endgame.

What I'm trying to articulate here is that dedicated players should never be permanently ahead of casual players. It should be obvious that placing an impossible barrier (missed weekly resets before they reached level 50) is detrimental to the game.

Why would anyone who wants to become hardcore/dedicated purchase this game if they will always be months, or later, years behind the top-level players and FCs?
Why would a casual player purchase this game if achievement is permanently stratified and tiered according to how long they've been at level 50 and meeting the weekly cap?
Why would anyone who has to take a break from the game or cut back on their play time (and miss the tome reset) continue to subscribe, if they fall behind their FC or friend group and can NEVER catch up?

This change is not bad. It is very good. But it actually isn't nearly good enough.

It might actually backfire, because once 2.1 rolls out, fresh 50s won't be 300 tomes behind for every week they've missed since release, but 450 tomes behind.

And this is not even factoring in Coil reset, which offers gear attainment at roughly the same rate as mythology tomestones.

[Ferr]

This was my post in the other thread.

This makes so much sense, so dont expect SE to do it.

[ReiszRie]

This was my post in the other thread.



What I'm trying to articulate here is that dedicated players should never be permanently ahead of casual players. It should be obvious that placing an impossible barrier (missed weekly resets before they reached level 50) is detrimental to the game.

Why would anyone who wants to become hardcore/dedicated purchase this game if they will always be months, or later, years behind the top-level players and FCs?
Why would a casual player purchase this game if achievement is permanently stratified and tiered according to how long they've been at level 50 and meeting the weekly cap?
Why would anyone who has to take a break from the game or cut back on their play time (and miss the tome reset) continue to subscribe, if they fall behind their FC or friend group and can NEVER catch up?

This change is not bad. It is very good. But it actually isn't nearly good enough.

It might actually backfire, because once 2.1 rolls out, fresh 50s won't be 300 tomes behind for every week they've missed since release, but 450 tomes behind.

And this is not even factoring in Coil reset, which offers gear attainment at roughly the same rate as mythology tomestones.

I understand the need for casuals to access end-game content but the issue here is that Mythology gears aren't required for any of the current end-game content, you can run HM Primals in DL, you can run Coil in DL, you don't need Mythology gear to participate in current end game content.

Casuals will never be permanently stratified and tiered as new gear aren't released as fast as it takes to get a full Mythology set (2 months) and current players who capped weekly will eventually reach an end-point where they're not gaining any new mythology gear as they've now the full set

Casuals won't be excluded from content as DL gears are still readily available and is fully acceptable and capable of running current and planned future content.

so what exactly is the point in making iLevel 90 Mythology gear easily and quickly attainable?

[YuriRamona]

I understand the need for casuals to access end-game content but the issue here is that Mythology gears aren't required for any of the current end-game content, you can run HM Primals in DL, you can run Coil in DL, you don't need Mythology gear to participate in current end game content.

Casuals will never be permanently stratified and tiered as new gear aren't released as fast as it takes to get a full Mythology set (2 months) and current players who capped weekly will eventually reach an end-point where they're not gaining any new mythology gear as they've now the full set

Casuals won't be excluded from content as DL gears are still readily available and is fully acceptable and capable of running current and planned future content.

so what exactly is the point in making iLevel 90 Mythology gear easily and quickly attainable?

Players naturally sort themselves into groups somewhere along the axis of casual to hardcore. Every good MMO will reward hardcore players for their work, dedication, and pioneering efforts.

My point is that the current weekly cap system permanently places hardcore/dedicated players ahead, in terms of equipment, because casual players will miss all the weeks of resets until they reach 50. This does not mean that Mythology gear is required or necessary, or that lack of this gear necessarily excludes players from accessing content. Of course, a vast majority of the current content can be cleared with basic DL and a relic. I agree with you on this point.

The problem arises because it is other players' choice to institute gear requirements for joining parties, FCs, and linkshells.

I agree fully that casual players with lower-tiered gear should be allowed to participate in many activities, but that will not be a sentiment shared by hardcore/dedicated players who are trying to eliminate the margin for error, failure, and wasted time. Not every player is as gracious as you in their willingness to allow casual players to join their group.

When groups that include casual players inevitably fail, the other players, or the casual players themselves, may come to believe that their equipment is to blame.

Skill can be gained.
Experience with mechanics can be attained.
Secondary tools such as VoIP and video guides can be utilized.
However, improvements to equipment is placed under a hard limit due to the weekly reset.

This is the core of the issue. Casual players can never, ever catch up to the public at large, their friends, or their groups, because they miss weekly resets.

I'm not asking SE to hand out mythology gear. I'm asking to institute a personal accumulating allotment that gives casual players a chance to go through the same grind and effort that hardcore/dedicated players put in to attain their tomes.

--

Of course, hardcore/dedicated players will reach an endpoint in their gear. But then that brings about the question, why would they even choose to mix with casual players at all, then? What incentive do they have to team up with players who have barely started to complete their set? Are we really depending on the goodwill of the hardcore/dedicated player base to be charitable with casual players? (We can look at the random dungeon finder and MVP system rewards to see that SE certainly does not think this will happen)

When the game does not actively encourage and incentivize hardcore/dedicated players to team up with casual players (or allow casual players to catch up) the community fragments, and ultimately, dissipates.

*Not really sure how you come up with the 2 months figure. With Allagan filling the gaps, that may be possible. If you aren't including accessories, then that would be true.

[Hik0]

I don't like the cap raise. Best gear in the game should come from the hardest end-game content, aka coil.

that have nothing to do with myth cap, even without cap raise people can get full myto set w/o enterring CoB,
+ lot of CoB drop are better than myto gear
+we dont know drops from extrem prim and new dungeons

Im glad that there will b a limit incrase buuuuuut
I'd rather see it "stackable"

So if i go to hawaii for 2 weeks and come back and still got 1 week vacation i want to be able to play all night long getting my 900 stones i missed while i was in hawaii.
So i can decide to when i WANT to play, not when it makes sense to play...
But i guess i'll never see that =/

they will never because they want player to stay suscribe:
allow it to stack=people can unsub one month then catch up next one

Currently, we can kill garuda HM in 3:30, taking away another 20 seconds for que time/loading and cutscenes thats 156 myth an hour.

If they don't make new content drop more than 40 myth somewhere, or make it drop gear that's decent, then garuda HM will still be the fastest way to farm myth. And with each new piece of gear garuda HM dies faster. I reckon will be under 3 mins within the next week or two. And thats 1 tank, 1 healer, and 6 dps.

TLDR :WE DON'T CARE ABOUT CONTENT ONLY ABOUT REWARD/H THEN WE CRY FOR LACK OF CONTENT TO DO AFTER ONE DAY

[Keyln]

The issue as i've mentioned, is that Myth gear are the best, and there ss nothing more to look forward to after getting it, unless they increase the stats on Allagans.

I have no issue if this is DL gears being made cheaper as DLs are required to participate in many other end game contents but Myth gears are literally the ultimate gear and I hope you can see my point.

And the problem is...what exactly?